5.4 Destruction Guide

5.4 Destruction Guide

448 Sparkuggz
Added by October 15, 2013

introduction
Welcome to the Warlock guide for the Destruction spec in Mists of Pandaria Patch 5.4

*NOTE* There will still be updates during 5.4 and i will add video guides together with more detailed playstyle tips and tricks as we go along.  

This guide will try cover many different areas to help you improve your play, do note that many things can change and rotations, stat weights, priority lists and all these sort of things can differ a lot. Always read guides with a grain of salt, but use it for what it’s worth.

A short starter guide if you aren’t too comfortable with detailed things yet or want specific suggestions for a low geared Warlock


T16 HC gear list suggestion (Mastery Version)

SLOT ITEM NAME ENCHANT STATS DROPS
Head Hood of the Horned Nightmare Thok the Bloodthirsty
Neck Untainted Guardian’s Chain Norushen
Shoulders Rime-Rift Shoulders Crane Wing 200 int / 100 crit Norushen
Chest Robes of the Horned Nightmare Glorious Stats +80 all stats Sha of Pride
Waist Belt of Ominous Trembles   Juggernaut
Legs Leggings of the Horned Nightmare Cerulean +285 int / 165 crit Paragons of the Klaxxi
Boots Bone-Inlaid Sandals Pandaren’s Step +140 Mastery Galakras
Wrists Avool’s Ancestral Bracers Super Intellect +170 Intellect Spoils of Pandaria
Gloves Gloves of the Horned Nightmare Superior Mastery +170 Mastery General Nazgrim
Finger Iyyokuk’s Hereditary Seal   Paragons of the Klaxxi
Finger Signet of the Dinomancers   Thok the Bloodthirsty
Trinket 1** Purified Bindings of Immerseus   Immerseus
Trinket 2** Kardris’ Toxic Totem   Kor’kron Dark Shaman
Back Xing-Ho, Breath of Yu’lon Superior Intellect +180 Intellect Legendary Questline
Main Hand Immaculately Preserved Wand Jade Spirit Spoils of Pandaria
Offhand Revelations of Y’Shaarj Major Intellect +165 Intellect Garrosh Hellscream 

You can pretty much use whatever offpiece you want, there isn’t much difference in what piece you choose to use as Warforged. Shoulders give you the most overall mastery pretty much, but the difference is so minimal.

 

(*) Gear list can be changed during progress with better setups that gives better value of stat output, this is just a rough guideline for mastery gear setup

(**) Trinkets are debateable and in BiS conditions trinkets might change slightly. Purified is a must have for Destruction warlocks, while you can choose between Black Blood of Y’Shaarj and Kardris’ Toxic Totem

Trinket List

This list is based on 571~ item level from Siege of Orgrimmar and tries to value each trinket individually.  Take it as a rough estimate of the trinket values, note that it’s not 100% accurate and using some trinkets together might bring a worse or better combination, but use it as a thumb rule of how well they do

 

 

Spell warlock darkregeneration Dark Regeneration – Instant 30% of maximum health for you and your pet plus 25% increased healing taken over 12 seconds. A very good talent for a survival phase with damage taken over a short period of time, but not superior on fights with steady damage taken.

Warlock siphonlife Soul Leech – The passive healing talent for our main attacks and will most likely be the used talent for Destruction on the fights to help out healers.

Spell warlock harvestoflife *NEW 5.4* Harvest Life – Increases the damage of your Drain Life spell by 50% and the healing of your Drain Life spell by 150%. (Passive)

When-to-use guidelines:

  1. Soul Lech – Simply brings a good passive shield to absorb damage
  2. Dark Regeneration – Really useful on a few fights where you want the extra healing and cooldown
  3. Harvest Life – Mainly a PvP talent, not so much use in PvE

*NEW 5.4* Demonic Breath – Replacement of Howl of Terror, new Cone of Cold like CC. Mainly usedi n PvP

Ability warlock mortalcoil Mortal Coil – Deathcoil with a 15% heal we can use in PvE

Ability warlock shadowfurytga Shadowfury – AoE stun without much use in PvE

When-to-use guidelines:

  1. Mortal Coil – 15% health for a GCD
  2. Shadowfury – Small stun, often times other classes bring more reliable and longer lasting stun
  3. Demonic Breath – Not much use besides PvP, can be useful for slowing the adds on a boss like Immersus

 

Ability warlock soullink *NEW 5.4* Soul Link – No longer shares health pool with your pet, instead 20% of all damage you take is split to your pet. Additionally, 3% of all damage you deal is converted into healing on you and your pet.

Warlock sacrificial pact Sacrificial Pact – A very solid absorb shield, which sacrifices 25% of your pets health to give a 400% shield of the sacrificed health. This talent can even be used in certain situations without a pet as you will lose 25% of your health for 400% of the lost health turning into a shield.

Ability deathwing bloodcorruption death Dark Bargain – Absorbs all damage for 8 seconds and when the shield fades you take 50% of the damage over 8 seconds. Risky if you take a lot of damage and suddenly will get bursted down when the absorb fades.

When-to-use guidelines:

  1. Soul Link – Passive 20% damage reduction is really good, espeically if we also use the Unending Glyph for 10% more
  2. Dark Bargain – Very good “oh shit” talent, that can save us in a lot of dire situations and works well with soaking
  3. Sacrificial Pact – This talent can be very good to take with high pulsing AoE’s at certain times in a fight, the shields are very big

*Soul Link still increases your health pool if you don’t have a pet and use Grimoire of Sacrifice, but most of the time you would want to run with another talent then depending on the fight.

 

Ability deathwing bloodcorruption earth Blood Horror – When activiated any time a enemy melee attacks you and deals damage, the enemy will run in horror for up to 4 seconds

Ability deathwing sealarmorbreachtga Burning Rush – 4% of maximum health per second for 50% movement speed.

Warlock spelldrain Unbound Will – Removes all magic and impairing effects

When-to-use guidelines:

  1. Burning Rush – Useful speed boost in many situations, you can nearly always find a use for it
  2. Unbound Will – Very cool self dispell, but only has its place on a few fights
  3. Blood Horror – Purely PvP talent, not much use in Pve

Warlock grimoireofcommand Grimoire of Supremacy – 20% more damage from our pets and they turn into different versions of themselves

Warlock grimoireofservice Grimoire of Service – Summons another pet of your choice  for 20 seconds

Warlock grimoireofsacrifice Grimoire of Sacrifice – Sacrifices our pet to increase our single target damaging spells and Wild Imp’s

When-to-use guidelines:

  1. Grimoire of Sacrifice – Increses single target damage dealt by Incinerate, Conflagrate, Shadowburn and Fel Flame. Chaos bolt deals 15% additional damage over 3 seconds as a dot. GoSac pulls ahead in BIS gear on single target, while if you AoE a lot GoSup will win because Sacrifice doesn’t increase damage dealt by Fire and Brimstone spells.
  2. Grimoire of Supremacy – Felhunter becomes an Observer and delivers stable damage. As soon as you AoE a lot Grimoire of Supremacy becomes better, because Fire and Brimstone doesn’t scale with GoSac.
  3. Grimoire of Service – Summons an extra pet, but not worth it  over the two other talents for Destruction.

Achievement boss archimonde *NEW 5.4* Archimonde’s Darkness – Your Dark Soul has two charges

Achievement boss kiljaedan *NEW 5.4* Kil’jaeden’s Cunning – You can cast Malefic Grasp, incinernate and Shadow bolt while moving

Achievement boss magtheridon *NEW 5.4* Mannoroth’s Fury – Increases AoE by 500% and the damage from Immolation Aura and Hellfire by 100%. 60 sec CD, 10 sec duration.

When-to-use guidelines:

  1. Archimonde’s Darkness – Basically the talent you pick when there is no AoE or heavy movement involved, it gives us a better management of when we want to use Dark Soul instead of using it on cooldown
  2. Mannoroth’s Fury – Very good talent for burst AoE fights, worth taking on a lot of fights in Siege of Orgrimmar
  3. Kil’jaeden’s Cunning – We don’t have much use for KJC on most fights because we can cast Fel Flame and put Rain of Fire while moving, i would only recommend to play with this for heavy movement fights such as Siegecrafter Blackfuse and similiar. If you feel uncomfortable with position placement and movement fights, this will always beat the other talents though.

 

There is no DPS increasing glyphs as Destruction, therefore we can pretty much choose whatever utillity glyphs we want.

*NEW 5.4* Glyph of Everlasting Affliction has been replaced by  Glyph of Eternal Resolve.

*NEW 5.4* Glyph of Dark Soul has been replaced by  Glyph of Curse of the Elements.

*NEW 5.4*  Glyph of Shadowflame has been replaced with  Glyph of Unending Resolve.

*NEW 5.4*   Glyph of Soul Swap has been replaced with Glyph of Havoc.

 

Major Glyphs

 Glyph of Eternal Resolve - If no major cooldown is needed, 10% passive reduction is really nice together with 20% from Soul Link.

 Glyph of Siphon Life - Passive healing with not many alternatives to pick

 Glyph of Healthstone or Soulstone – 3rd option you pick and choose depending on the fight

 

Stats are a very touchy subject, so to determine what stats we want we need to know what they actually do and bring.

Mastery increases the damage done by: Immolate, Incinerate, Fel Flame and Conflagrate and increase effectiveness of Burning Ember consuming spells like Shadowburn and Chaos Bolt. It’s a pure raw damage increasing stat for Destruction which scales really well on multi target and AoE fights.

Haste is the stat that gives us faster casts, shorter rain of fire duration and also increases pet energy regeneration. Haste is a good stat together with GoSupremacy but looses it’s value for Destruction as soon as we go for Grimoire of Sacrifice because of the Backlash mechanics, Incinerates will reach under the Global Cooldown Cap and thus not as needed stat for us.

Critical strike is our ember regeneration stat, every crititcal strike regenerates extra embers and it also scales up Chaos Bolt damage slightly. A strong single target stat for Destruction because we rely heavily on ember consuming spells.

 

Single target (theoritically best):

Int > 15% Hit > Mastery > Crit =~ Haste

“Mastery is king and Critical strike is equal to Haste. There really is no big difference or need to focus on either stat above the other.

 

M=Mastery, H=Haste, C=Crit, Shoulder/Head/Chest/Legs=Offpiece item

As you can see, there is no difference in changing your stats. 500 DPS out of 439.000 is under 0,12% difference in DPS. You cannot from such small differences clearly state either stat to be better, so don’t overthink it.

 

2-4 Targets

Int > 15% Hit > Mastery > Haste >~ Crit

 

AoE

Int > 15% Hit > Mastery > Haste > Crit

 

Siege of Orgrimmar setup with option to respec 

Int > 15% Hit > Mastery > Haste ~= Crit

“Simply just balance your stats, reforge to as much mastery as you can and the two last stats doesn’t matter much. I personally prefer haste or a balance of the stats, because haste makes you mobile and you won’t have to cancel a 10 second Chaos Bolt to move.”

 

We don’t aim for the Immolate haste caps, but make sure you have the 2021 haste at least.

 Immolate haste caps

Number of ticks
 6
7
8
9
10
- Raid Haste  2021 10124 18200 26318 34427
- Raid Haste + (BL/Hero)  N/A N/A 4192 10437 16675
 

 

Single target stat weights

If you want to find your stat weights and specific values for purely single target fights (not reflected so much in Siege of Orgrimmar) you can use Simulationcraft to determine how to gem and gear. Remember that it doesn’t apply on AoE, multi or single target fights with burst mechanics.

Gems are helping us boost stats we choose, that also means that there is no determined gemming. If we want more of a stat for certain fights, gems are where we can find those stats. These are just general guidelines for when we go with the heavy mutli target / AoE and all around strongest build for Destruction.

Socket Gem
Meta (Legendary)  Sinister Primal Diamond (*)
Meta  Burning Primal Diamond
Prismatic
 Fractured Sun’s Radiance (320 Mastery)
Red (high hit)  Artful Vermilion Onyx (80 Int / 160 Mastery)
Red (low hit)  Keen Vermilion Onyx (160 Exp / 160 Mastery)
Yellow  Fractured Sun’s Radiance (320 Mastery)
Blue  Sensei’s Wild Jade (160 Hit / 160 Mastery)

 

(*) There is a huge argument about Burning Primal Diamond vs Sinister Primal Diamond

To clarify a bit, there is no reason to go Burning and it’s not “better” than Sinister.

On top of this, if you use the legendary meta gem properly and play heavy crit plus Grimoire of Sacrifice or on an AoE fight, the legendary meta gem is really good. The difference is not really relevant and in any case you play 2 specs, you do not wish to reput your meta gem all the time for no gain.

IconSmall Blacksmithing Blacksmithing 320 Intellect or 640 secondary stats
IconSmall Tailoring Tailoring 320 Intellect on average~
IconSmall Leatherworking Leatherworking 320 Intellect
IconSmall Engineering Engineering ~320 Intellect  on average but can be synced with cooldowns
IconSmall Jewelcrafting Jewelcrafting 320 Intellect  or 320 secondary stats
IconSmall Alchemy Alchemy 320 Intellect
IconSmall Inscription Inscription 320 Intellect
IconSmall Enchanting Enchanting 320 Intellect
IconSmall Herbalism Herbalism/ IconSmall Skinning Skinning 480 haste~ / 480 Critical Strike
IconSmall Mining Mining 480 Stamina

 

Engineering, Tailoring, Herbalism and Blacksmithing  is at the moment the best profession for us as a warlock.

Engineering provides a great burst lining up with cooldowns and “on use” / high intellect procs will always be superior to passive stats. Blacksmithing is still good because it gives us 640 secondary stats, and secondary stats gain a high value on AoE + multi target fights.

If you choose either of the 4 you are save to go, but there is a rather big difference from rest of the professions to these 4, so it does matter what you choose.

Consumables

 

Icon Ability Lvl
Spell fire fireball [Conflagrate] 10
Spell fire burnout [Incinerate] 10
Spell fire felflamering [Chaotic Energy] 10
Spell fire immolation [Immolate] 12
Spell shadow rainoffire [Rain of Fire] 21
Spell fire playingwithfire [Backlash] 32
Ability warlock baneofhavoc [Havoc] 36
Ability warlock chaosbolt [Chaos Bolt] 42
Inv ember [Ember Tap] 42
Ability warlock burningembers [Burning Embers] 42
Spell shadow scourgebuild [Shadowburn] 47
Ability warlock fireandbrimstone [Fire and Brimstone] 54
Spell fire fire [Aftermath] 54
Ability warlock backdraft [Backdraft] 69
Ability mount fireravengodmount [Flames of Xoroth] 79
Spell fire moltenblood [Mastery: Emberstorm] 80
Spell warlock demonsoul [Dark Soul: Instability] 84
Inv offhand 1h firelandsraid d 01 [Pyroclasm] 86

 

Rotation priority

 Dark Soul

 [Immolate]

 [Chaos Bolt] (*)

  •  [Shadowburn] under 20%

 [Conflagrate] (**)

 [Incinerate]

Spell fire felfirenova Fel Flame (while moving)

 

(*) When to Chaos Bolt 

We want to save 3-3½ ember for whenever we get “procs”, thus preferably not using Embers on non-buffed CB’s unless it’s really nessecary.

Procs to look out for

-          Intellect procs from trinkets

-          Dark Soul (30% Critical Strike chance -> Increases CB damage)

-          Skull Banner (20% Critical Strike Damage -> Inceases CB damage)

-          4P (15% Critical Strike -> Increases CB damage)

-          Jade spirit, tailoring cloak encahnt etc. (minor)

You always want to try to line up CB’s with as many of the posted buffs, but else you prioritize them in the order listed above.  Don’t ever cap on embers, rather cast a chaosbolt with minor procs and smoothen them out than ending up sitting on 4 embers.

 

(**) How to deal with Backdraft from Conflagrate 

If you have a lot of haste, it doesn’t matter much what you use backdraft on and generally if you have intellect procs from trinket, dark soul and everything aligning, don’t be scared to use 3 backdraft procs on a Chaos Bolt. Chaos Bolt always has priority over anything when everything aligns.

Generally just try to make sure you keep conflagrate on cooldown and use the Backlash procs on Incinerates

 

Opener

 Pre pot + Pre cast   [Incinerate]

 Dark Soul

 [Immolate]

 [Conflagrate] x2 (6x Backdrafts)

4x  [Incinerate]

 [Chaos Bolt]

 [Chaos Bolt](*)  /  [Incinerate] and fit in reapplying  [Immolate] with  Dark Soul effect and 4P T16

(*) “Make sure to get as many Chaos Bolts off before the 10 second trinkets fade, you can use Backdraft procs to consume CB as long as you don’t fail to get CB off with everything”

(**) “Remember that if you play with Grimoire of Sacirfice your Chaos Bolt leaves a dot, the dot can be clipped too early if you are close and cast back to back Chaos Bolt’s. Make sure you fill with a spell between each Chaos Bolt as you want the maximum amount of ticks from it. In case everything procs and is about to fade so you can’t delay your CB, don’t bother about this rule.”

If you have Wusholay or Blackblood this is how i would go about my opener

Same method as above, but make sure you land the  [Chaos Bolt]‘s at the high stacks of the trinket at all times.

 

AoE rotation priority

  • Activate  [Fire and Brimstone]

 [Immolate]

 [Conflagrate]

 [Incinerate]

 [Rain of Fire]

* Rain of Fire on AoE

It’s debateable wether to use Rain of Fire or not. It’s a great tool for the start of an AoE scenario to gain embers and not loose Fire and Brimstone effect, but during longer lasting AoE where you regenerate enough embers from each execution, it doens’t matter much if you use it or not. With Mannoroth’s Fury you should obviously use it, and i tend to like to use it in a few scenarios

  • If i have no Backdraft up for  [Incinerate] and no procs are active.
  • Legendary Meta Gem is up and Backdraft is up, GCD capped and Legendary Meta Gem scales the Rain of Fire duration.
  • While moving and / or pre starting AoE rotation to not loose  [Fire and Brimstone]

 

Multi target (2-4 targets)

Apply  [Immolate] to all targets

 [Rain of Fire]  on +2 targets standing still

 [Havoc] and cast  [Chaos Bolt] /  [Shadowburn]

+4 targets  [Fire and Brimstone] +   [Incinerate] should >~   [Chaos Bolt] on one target

And do your normal single target rotation

 


Best races for Destruction Warlock

Horde: Troll Berserking
Alliance: Worgen Viciousness Darkflight

Troll > Worgen ~= Orc ~= Goblin

“The reason orc isn’t ahead is because we play Grimoire of Sacrifice in this setup, if we would have played Grimoire of Supremacy, Orc should be slightly above Worgen and Goblin possibly.”

 

Video Guides Video guides related to Destruction will appear here

 

*NOTE* There will still be updates during 5.4 and i will add video guides together with more detailed playstyle tips and tricks as we go along.  

 

Donations are greatly appreciated <3“Donations are greatly appreciated if you want to help me keep running things <3.”

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448 Comments

  1. Slash
    Slash 15 October, 2013, 19:00

    Thanks! :D

    • Justin
      Justin 17 October, 2013, 03:24

      There are a lot of threads out there saying that GoSac Chaos bolt dot does not clip, but is instead added to the current dot –

  2. Myzrael
    Myzrael 15 October, 2013, 20:12

    Now this is a guide. Good job.

  3. Sam
    Sam 15 October, 2013, 20:17

    great guide as always sparkk!

  4. Bushwookie
    Bushwookie 15 October, 2013, 20:45

    Why the life tap for destro? :O

  5. Thierry
    Thierry 15 October, 2013, 20:58

    Amazing guide, I’m looking forward to the video guides.
    Any thoughts on set bonuses this tier?

  6. BigG
    BigG 15 October, 2013, 21:03

    At last, was waiting for this a long time! thx for the research spark.

  7. Daniel
    Daniel 15 October, 2013, 21:12

    Great guide, I’ll gladly pay for more if you write more too! Donated totally!

  8. farewell
    farewell 15 October, 2013, 23:15

    Thanks spark, I know we all can trust you. Now I don’t have to go around searching like mad for true facts!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 15 October, 2013, 23:17


      Everything is on a very fine line though, never trust anything 100%. Things change, new things get discovered and solved but i will do my best to try to keep it updated in case it does!

  9. Caliban
    Caliban 16 October, 2013, 00:14

    Thank you Sparkuggz!
    I am having a hard time choosing if I should use the glyph of havoc or not on fights, Galakras, Sha of Pride, Spoils, Garosh ect…Do you have a personal advise when or not to use glyph of havoc?
    Also u advise the use of Manoroth fury in soo, but is it not only boosting Rain of fire? Wouldn’t we get more out using AD even on Galakras for ex?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 00:39


      Glyph of Havoc isn’t really useful on many if any fights, it’s pretty though call, it just depends on the specific timers on how you can use havoc etc.

      Well, MF is every 1 min, and the extra DS is just once. I don’t really see how it would outdo MF on a long lasting AoE fight, it isn’t that major with 30% crit tbh.

  10. Wonders
    Wonders 16 October, 2013, 05:30

    Is GoSac better for Single target DPS even without BiS gear? or is GoSup better for people if you dont have the BiS gear, for Single target

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 08:22


      I would think that the lowerish ilvl you get the better gosup becomes, where it would swap between them im not exactly sure, try to sim your character with both to get an idea if there is a diff or not. Haste also works good with GoSup vs the heavy crit for GoSac

  11. Ilva
    Ilva 16 October, 2013, 07:04

    Thank you for the guide :)

    Got one follow up question:

    What pulls ahead in this scenario?

    Immaculately Preserved Wand vs. Arcweaver Spell Sword (as human) in both single-target (crit) and multi-target (haste).

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 07:51


      That’s rather complicted to say , but 1% free stat sounds terrible to deny despite the mastery loss. I would go with the sword all around

      • Locknpinguu
        Locknpinguu 4 December, 2013, 09:51

        If i undestand you right as a human it’s better to go for a sword because of the racial?
        So for my gnome i whould rather go for the “Rik’kal’s Bloody Scalpel” dagger just for that 1% bonus? and for the bad socket bonus i could just go for a full mastery gem to cover abit of the mastery lose.

        • Sparkuggz
          Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:53


          Well, it’s all math and stats. 1% hit is a lot of raiting you get for free, which mostly outdoes mastery’s value. Mastery isn’t _THAT_ overpowered compared to the other stats, but it does hurt on multi encounters for most specs with less mastery imo

  12. Jugment
    Jugment 16 October, 2013, 11:06

    Great guide, but I have a question:
    In the guide it is stated that crit>haste but you reforge to haste.
    So I’m a bit confused about crit>haste or haste>crit

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 18:02


      Doesn’t matter much at all, it states clearly in the guide that its single target that crit pulls ahead, for AoE haste is still good and for movement fights haste isn’t bad because of having to cast Chaos Bolt’s on Siegecrafter, is a nightmare with heavy crit.

  13. Andrew Bates
    Andrew Bates 16 October, 2013, 13:00

    Is it worth go sacrafise because im not sure

  14. kaokeno
    kaokeno 16 October, 2013, 13:38

    awesome guide thank you very much! have a question about sub 20%. was talking to another lock in my guild and was wondering if its more worth it (in this scenario) if we have full embers with ds and full procs+ blood lust, if its better to spam chaosbolts over shadowburns since chaos bolt will scale better with haste and procs if im not mistakin more so than shadowburn. or should we just burn embers on shadowburns, this is running with gosup, same question about gosac mostly because of the extra dot ticks from cb. any thoughts definitely greatly appreciated ty! ^.^

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 18:07


      It should be worth it to CB in that case and scenario, the exact fine line i’m not 100% sure, but its nearly the same.

  15. Monnezza
    Monnezza 16 October, 2013, 15:02

    Thanks a lot for this guide and BIG GRATZ for all that you and your guild have been able to achieve, last but not least, the HC GARROSH World 1st!
    I’m no more than a casual raider nowadays, due to job and RL s**t, and mainly using my rogue, but following you pushed me to dust off my vanilla lock and i really find it very very funny to play.
    Is there any tips you can share about how to make the most from a lower ilvl toon? spec/talent/stats or anything else.
    I’m sitting on 504 ilvl atm and i can push around 120K dps at the end of the first 2 wings of SoO-lfr.
    I know this site is intended for hardcore raiders, so i won’t be hurt if you will skip my request.
    Wish you best luck and fun!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 18:08


      Lower item level destruction is based more around intellect and Grimoire of Supremacy, you want to focus more intellect heavy until you reach higher levels.

  16. Ursäkta
    Ursäkta 16 October, 2013, 16:08

    How can the inlaid sandals ( the boots) be better than: Toxic Tornado Treads. Since crit is better than haste ?

  17. Kuf
    Kuf 16 October, 2013, 16:19

    Hey spark, thanks for the guide.
    I’ve a question:
    Why you remove Rain of Fire in a single target rotation? Why are the damage and embers (especially embers) produce by Rain of Fire not worth a GCD?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 18:10


      They fixed Rain of Fire to no longer be worth it on single target rotation with the ember regeneration. The damage is also utterly poop of the spell that you barely use it on AoE.

  18. Sham
    Sham 16 October, 2013, 16:23

    Thank you for a helpful and easily understandable guide. I’m fairly new to Warlock play, and there’s a few things I’ve been pondering since trying it out.

    One thing is the weights of secondary stats. As your own reforging indicates, Mastery seems ahead of the pack with Critical Strike and Haste almost interchangable. However, I’ve been experiencing some manner of Ember starving. Even in multimob scenarios, say 4 mobs, if I go in with 2 embers for example, after a pull, and perhaps do RoF first, FaB next, Immolation and then Conf. The FaB buff falls off, and I’m stranded with 0 embers having to build up by way of single target.

    I guess my question is this: At lower gear levels, is crit rating – to help Ember build up – perhaps worth more than it is at higher gear levels where high levels of Int keeps crit rating reasonably high? Meaning, might it be worth to prioritize crit a bit more in the range I’m in – 520ish – to reduce ember starvation or is it just a matter of me not quite getting the finer mechanics of Ember build up?

    If you can find the time to comment on the secondary stats, it’d be greatly appreciated.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 18:12


      Crit ofc is worth it more at lower ilvl, like intellect is superior to 2ndary stats. If you want the values for your gear, you need to simulate it. There is no guide that can really cover you as its way to individual what theoritically is the best stats. If you netpick that much, which doesn’t impact dps as much as you think, you need to figure it out for your own exact gear setup.

  19. Warb
    Warb 16 October, 2013, 17:12

    You say that you should use this red gem if you are low on hit: Keen Vermilion Onyx (160 Exp / 160 Mastery). Why are you using it yourself? As i can image that you do not have problems reaching the hit cap? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Sparkuggz/advanced

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 October, 2013, 18:12


      Low hit, is just ment as under hit cap. Sometimes you have a setup that provides 15% passive hit (Wusholay) and sometims you have 9%. I always go for Keen if im not close to hit cap, to get more secondary stats, it’s simply just better overall.

    • Alex
      Alex 16 October, 2013, 18:36

      He uses it because most of his gear doesn’t have it. At least that’s what i’ve noticed.

  20. Boomchak
    Boomchak 16 October, 2013, 20:35

    Thats nice man thanks for the GUIDE ! ( BOOMCHAK ) !

  21. Jake
    Jake 17 October, 2013, 01:35

    Hey Sparkuggz, i just wonder when would be the best time to pop terrorguard, for a fight where BL is in the start, like on Malkorok? i find it hard to get my second CB befor my 10 sec trinkets runs out, if i pop the TG before i cast CB!

  22. Justin
    Justin 17 October, 2013, 03:25

    There are a lot of threads out there saying that GoSac Chaos bolt dot does not clip, but is instead added to the current dot –

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 03:55


      Try it on a dummy, you get 5 ticks if you stand close and cast back to back, you gain 6 ticks if you time it more properly.

      • Arcturus
        Arcturus 8 April, 2014, 03:55

        Whether it clips or not should only depend on your casting speed, not your distance to the target. Even with relatively low haste you should see the lost ticks by casting 4 CB back to back.

        • Sparkuggz
          Sparkuggz 8 April, 2014, 11:09


          It depends on target range as well because CB has travel time. Back in the days the trick was to run backwards right before casting the 2nd CB with KJC, but thats not possible anymore

          • Kenan DeHart
            Kenan DeHart 20 May, 2014, 20:09

            Even though Chaos Bolt has travel time, logically, I think Arcturus is right.

            If two Chaos Bolts leave the body 1.5 seconds apart from each other, they will land 1.5 seconds apart from each other, no matter the distance between player and target.

            Here is a timeline
            0.00 SEC – CB1 leaves player. Travel time of 2 seconds.
            1.50 SEC – CB2 leaves player. Travel time of 2 seconds.
            2.00 SEC – **CB1 LANDS**
            3.50 SEC – **CB2 LANDS**

            Following that pattern, the chaos bolts will always be separated only by the difference in time cast.

            • Liquidsteel
              Liquidsteel 20 May, 2014, 22:43

              What if the boss is moved closer to you, or has a mechanic which sucks you in, like kilruks reave.

  23. Nathan
    Nathan 17 October, 2013, 06:42

    Hi Spark, thank you for the guide. I was just wanting to confirm, with Chaos Bolt (well, any spell with a cast time), when is the spell damage calculated (i.e, procs taken into account), when the spell starts cast? When the spell finishes casting? or when the spell hits the target?

    Had a number of times with my procs having 2-3 seconds left and not sure if I should burn another ember or wait till the next procs.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 08:45


      When the spell finishes it cast, ie leaving your body it calculates the stats.

  24. tautine
    tautine 17 October, 2013, 06:55

    Hey Sparkuggz, nice pages and guides.

    I have question about MF talent. Does it increase FnB damage too or just RoFs dmg and radius?

  25. tautine
    tautine 17 October, 2013, 07:30

    Okay, just as I thought. Isn’t it quite a weak in most of the SoO fights? Atleast in 25mans, just can’t find use for it as destruction.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 08:39


      It’s only really good ‘wave’ adds that comeand fits the timer so we use it multiple times

  26. Darthy
    Darthy 17 October, 2013, 10:23

    found a small typo:
    Grimoire of Sacrifice – Increses single target damage dealt by Incinerate, Conflagrate, Shadowburn and Flame Flame.

    I am pretty sure you mean fel flame :p

  27. Gweyn
    Gweyn 17 October, 2013, 14:16

    Awesome guide thank you so much for taking the time out to post it cleared up a lot of questions I had!
    I’ve been seeing a lot of differing opinions on when it is a good time to pop DS more specifically when Hero or Time warp etc are active. Someone recently said DS should never be active when Time warp etc. is active and I was curious to know if there was any truth behind that? I was under the impression that the more buffs you have the better your CB. I was also curious to know if popping DS is ok to use when you get trinket proc starved or to just hold off on it until you get another trinket proc(s). And my final question is that I also read that DS should no longer be used for CB’s but rather to help generate the embers to launch them.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 14:33


      I’m rather confused who is stating that you shouldn’t use DS during Timewarp / BL? To clarify some things, Dark Soul isn’t as major as people may think. 8-9k+ intellect proc is more damage pr CB vs Dark Soul. Now that being said, you should always use DS pretty much on cooldown and just try to use the CB at the best time possible, with going through the priority list with Intellect procs ranking higher. It’s about fitting them in at the right time. You seem to want a very mechanical playstyle like “dont use this or use x or y at z condition”. It really doesn’t work like that, ever. Dark Soul is used to regenerate embers as well through renewing Immolate and the criticals we get, but it’s still a DPS cooldown that brings DPS to CB. We just hope / want to try to line it up with trinket procs to make it superior. Every proc counts, every proc needs to be considered and dealt with. Down to earth Destruction is all about fitting the most procs and cooldowns on your CB’s as possible and that’s about it!

      • Gweyn
        Gweyn 17 October, 2013, 16:23

        Eh.. some lock on my server was arguing with me about when to cast DS to be honest I’m not even sure what he was getting at cause I thought it was always the more procs you have the better but he argued enough to make me want to question it. Mechanical play style is probably the best way to put it… I over analyze/over think everything and I think it makes me loose out on a chunk of dps plus having a lack of keybinds/macros, fortunately my second guessing isn’t so bad that it hinders me useless. I still play fairly decently and it’s very rare that I find another lock that can beat my dps but I know I can still do much better.
        Thanks a bunch for taking the time to answer my question!

        • Sparkuggz
          Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 16:34


          Tell that other guy not to drink from the tea pot at night, i’m not sure what he ment with it. But yea, try to fix your keybinds and think more reactionary than mechanical and you will go a long way.

    • Pesh
      Pesh 17 October, 2013, 14:50

      I pop DS when my PBI procs since its same duration and almost same cd – At pull it’s gimped since I don’t have embers (except first Nazgrim pull of the week xD), but it still generates good embers from spamming your fillers. The next procs are really powerful with both PBI proc and DS so I save 4 embers for that.

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 14:55


        Yea, that is true pretty much. PBI + DS should align pretty well. As long as you dont loose out on an extra DS on an overall fight you are pretty safe delaying it a few seconds for PBI.

  28. Nox
    Nox 17 October, 2013, 14:59

    How much haste would you play with in a heavy crit – GoSac build? I feel like if you stack crit too much, you begin losing CB’s with procs i.e. the last chaos bolt launches .5 sec after your trinket buff expires.

    Currently, i’m running with 22.3 % crit and only 6 % haste (my gear isn’t that high anyway) unbuffed and i’m wondering if from now on it would be a good idea to stack a bit of haste aswell (up to 15-20 % maybe).

    Oh, and another question: if you want to simcraft your character in different setups (gems, stats, lmg vs normal meta, diff talents), how do you do it exactly? Do you just go ingame and regem/retalent and then load your character or just change it in the code section? It’s a bit too expensive for me if i need to do it the first way :)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 15:18


      I indeed have the same feeling as you, that i like a little heavier on the haste for most fights. Both movement based and from proc reaction based. The difference of crit vs haste, especially when we talk 4k haste, is minimal. There isn’t much point to go all out crit, haste is pretty equal to crit and i think Haste is one of those stats that if used good and once we are in a real world fight, can often times be better then simulated on stand still. Cancelling CB on Siegecrafter movement etc is devestating, where im just not a fan of super heavy crit.

      You can edit all the simulation text, to new gems and setups and add things yourself, it’s pretty simple once you get used to it. You can also just logout with other setups

      • Nox
        Nox 17 October, 2013, 15:24

        Thanks for the reply.
        So I guess around 20 % haste would be better, and still not drag you down with incinerate being under gcd :-?

  29. Sparkuggz
    Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 15:12


    # Update
    - Added a comparing list of Grimoire’s for single target in T16H gear
    Sac > Sup ~ Serv
    - Sinister > Burning, changed the wording to reflect that there is no reason to think about Burning Primal Diamond meta gem

  30. Nox
    Nox 17 October, 2013, 15:25

    By the way, you mentioned that LMG is equal or better to burning primal diamond if “played properly” What’s that supposed to mean in a more detailed way? I think this is a question many readers posed themselves :P

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 17 October, 2013, 15:36


      I’ll just change it to no need to use Burning Primal ever, but point is that if you use Sinister properly, you can get more out of it so you dont waste it (like spamming ToC in Metamorphosis as demo) same thing applies for GCD capping yourself with Incinerate + Backdraft yadda yadda.

  31. Jacob
    Jacob 17 October, 2013, 19:01

    HI sparks working on Heroic spoils playing destro. Using breath and Cha-ye for trinkets how would you reforge for this fight playing sac also.

  32. Keldion
    Keldion 17 October, 2013, 19:34

    Good to know that blood elves aren’t that far behind the other races. As far as I’m concerned, execution and form always trump racial bonuses.

  33. Gweyn
    Gweyn 17 October, 2013, 20:29

    I just downloaded simcraft and it is telling me that my stat priority should be Int > Hit > Haste ~= Crit ~= Mastery for patchwerk style fights and Int > Mastery > Haste > Hit ~= Crit for hecticandcleave style is that just cause my gear is different? Or am I doing something wrong? :/

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 18 October, 2013, 05:30


      Because all stats are nearly the same, and people overthink it a lot. The more mastery you have on your gear, the worst it will start to show up in Simcraft, and same goes for other stats. The stat you have the least of will always start to climp up close or above, because they are so close it will say i prefer this stat. It’s pretty obvious what it says tho with th gear you choose, you have most mastery, goes for that, you have most crit, then it wants haste because it struggles and they are so equal. Movement fights, M > H > C is pretty logic as well.

  34. Caliban
    Caliban 18 October, 2013, 08:30

    Did anyone calculated how much haste, mastery and crit this BIS list gives us? Thanks :)

    • Caliban
      Caliban 18 October, 2013, 14:42

      ok did it for myself, if I keep the demo haste cap at 8097, it’s haste 8098, crit 7777 and mastery 21237, of course depending how you gem and enchant.
      Aff. haste cap 9978 is also possible, gives 9999 haste, 6376 crit and 20888 mastery.

      looks very good I think if we wanna keep a second playable spec.
      What do you think?

  35. Caliban
    Caliban 18 October, 2013, 15:33

    How would you start an aoe with F&B with 1 amber?
    I always start with rain of fire, but I loose F&B right after my first immolate (costing 1 amber) or conflag.
    Shall I wait to have at least two ambers before turning F&B on?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 18 October, 2013, 15:42


      I try to save 1½ ember for AoE and i always start with Rain of Fire to generate enough embers to keep up. You also can start with Incinerate above Conflag and Immolate if you don’t want to loose the FnB and you are low on embers / no RoF.

  36. Sparkuggz
    Sparkuggz 18 October, 2013, 15:41


    #Update

    - Added calculations on offpiece items
    - Added calculation on Haste vs Crit reforge
    - Added AoE + 2-4 target values of reforge

  37. Chopps
    Chopps 18 October, 2013, 18:13

    Hi Spark, so Destruction is the strongest at single-target fights but wich specc is the best for mutliple target fights for example The Falle Protecors?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 18 October, 2013, 18:52


      Affliction, but dont think anyone has really played with BBoY + Purified Demonology in BiS gear to see the outcome.

  38. Morgorock
    Morgorock 18 October, 2013, 18:30

    Hi Spark,
    In some forums i read that even in 5.4 it’s worth using rain of fire for single target ember generation, but only if serious haste procs are up (Legendary meta gem or BL/TW etc.). What’s your opinion about that ?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 18 October, 2013, 18:56


      It should be worth it with heavy haste, but doubt it if you have heavy intellect procs up at the same time. It’s stil a decent thing for embers but Rain of Fire is so terrible damage output now. Even on AoE you only really want to use RoF with haste since it’s pretty much equal to not use it at all. Let’s just say you arent missing out on anything by doing either.

  39. Morranor
    Morranor 18 October, 2013, 20:59

    Why do we never see demonic breath in any scenario ? Never tried it yeat but it seems to be a quiet powerfull instant cast for an aoe spell.

    • Morgorock
      Morgorock 18 October, 2013, 23:17

      I guess the Shadowfury is stronger, the 3 sec stun, is about the same slowing (50 % for 6 sec, or stun, aka 0 % moving for 3 sec), but much easier to position over the targets than moving there.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 19 October, 2013, 03:42


      It does no damage

      • Morranor
        Morranor 26 October, 2013, 10:06

        Indeed. The wowarmory tooltip gives damage, but the IG tooltip doesn’t.

  40. SLOWLLY
    SLOWLLY 19 October, 2013, 01:03

    Hey Spark, first of all excellent guide :)
    I’ve a few question, if you don’t mind answering.

    How much ilvl and/or which trinkets do I need for GoSac to be superior to GoSup in single target?

    Assuming observer as the default pet, for which fights do you use the imp? Apart from target switching, I feel like the imp is slightly better for fights with little movement (nazgrim maybe?).

    Is the legendary meta procc + BL enough to make RoF worth casting on single target or I’d need something like 10k+ unbuffed haste on top of all that?

    Which fights do you recommend going affliction over destro? I’m only using affliction for fallen protectors (my lock is an alt). Do I need something like 550+ ilvl for affliction to actually do decent damage on single target?

    And last question, regarding the opener: any reason to use dark soul before the 1st immolate and the 2 conflags? I’m popping it before the 4 incinerates and I still get the 2nd ember, allowing me to chaos bolt twice in a row and have a few extra seconds on dark soul.

    Thanks!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 19 October, 2013, 03:52


      Ilvl + trinkets shouldnt matter too much. I havn’t done any testings on which ilvl it swaps, too much time commitment for nothing gained and only helping very very few, you can always try to simulate yourself with both to see. GoSac should work on most ilvls after the buff, but im sure there is a point where pet outdoes becasue we cant regenerate enough embers to keep it up with secondary stats. It’s not trinket based at all though.

      I don’t really use GoSup anymore, so it doesn’t really matter what pet you choose. Nazgrim you can leave your pet on the boss, so i never thought about any fights where i would swap. Think logical, im sure you can figure out where the imp is good in case you play sup!

      RoF debate on single target i didn’t run tests with it, but its logical that you could benefit with high haste from it, but to such small extend that if you cast or dont, you won’t really see any impact on your DPS. As soon as its multi target ofc, but if you use it on single target is potato, potato arguments. I will try to update later on, but its such net picking things that dont really matter for DPS

      Affliction for fallen protectors probably, not sure if there is many other fights it really outshines destro on. Try to browse through wol to get an idea of the differences from people parsing.

      Why wouldnt you want DS on immolate ticking + 2 conflags? The things proc instantly, so you arent waiting for things to proc and thus not wasting any uptime on DS. Now that trinkets are 10 seconds except purified, i dont see much reason to not pop it at opener, even BBoY stacks over 10 seconds. You want to get more CB off before it fades as well, so getting it ticking on first immolate is pretty neat with zerking and such.

  41. Questions
    Questions 19 October, 2013, 01:15

    is the heal from soul link worth it if you’re using GoSac?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 19 October, 2013, 03:53


      You gain 20% more health as well, it’s not a bad talent, but if you want a CD just pick the DB or Sac!

  42. tautine
    tautine 19 October, 2013, 11:44

    Do you think windsong could outweight jade spirit as for destruction? Since our secondary stats are far better than pure intellect, just a thought

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 19 October, 2013, 18:15


      Watch out when we say that secondary stats are better than intellect. It’s not completly true, because intellect is above secondary stats 1:1 ratio. But we normally get TWICE the amount of secondary stats pr intellect, meaning that 2x secondary stats has to be better than intellect which is true most of the time. Windsong isn’t enough secondary stats to really be worth it, proc is only 1500 secondary stats and jade spirit is still that in intellect.

  43. Mero
    Mero 20 October, 2013, 08:40

    Hey Spark, as usual best lock guide on the web.
    I have a question for the opening: it’s not better begin a fight with dark soul, conflagrate x2 to allow trinkets procs, then immolate with trinkets procced and incinerate spam, instead of immolate as first spell without trinkets procced?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 October, 2013, 13:24


      You just want immolate ticking as fast as possible for ember regeneration, we don’t want it to really run with damage boosters but the crit from DS etc, we can renew it later with rest of the things. But the destro opener isn’t set in stone, you can change it up, the outcome shouldnt be major from the one i suggest.

  44. Nico
    Nico 20 October, 2013, 12:06

    I’m kinda stuck gear-wise. My Destro Lock is only an alt and there are not many pugs or guilds needing a step-in DPs, nor do we do alt raids in the guild.

    Here’s the thing:

    I have:

    Damien’s Ice Vein Mask (Warforged, not upgraded – 920 Hit, 1028 Haste, 613 reforged Mastery, blue and meta socket)

    Ulmaas’ Robes of Crushing Magma (Warforged, upgraded – 997 hit, 1117 haste, 664 reforged Mastery, 2 x blue and 1 red socket)

    Belt of the Night Sky (upgraded, 629 Hit, 1002 Haste, 418 reforged Mastery , 2 x red and prismatic socket)

    Now, what do I do with Flex items I already have and and might get? I already have Hood of Swirling Senses (Flex) and the tier chest (Flex). Do I sacrifice everything to get as much Mastery as possible or is the amount of Intellect (and Haste) enough to off-set the loss of Mastery?

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/argent-dawn/Maedhros/simple

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 October, 2013, 13:46


      Puh, that’s too much to set myself into right now. It doesn’t really matter much for you, if you want to know calculate the total value of stats you change and consider if its an upgrade or not. You can always simulate your character to get a end result with the different setups.

      • Nico
        Nico 20 October, 2013, 14:00

        Yeah, sorry for the item spam, it was just in case you didn’t feel like clicking armory links! ;)

  45. ace
    ace 20 October, 2013, 18:55

    Hey, Sparks.

    I decided to reforge hitcap> mastery>> Crit = haste for single target and shift over to Master>H>C for cleave.

    So i am balancing between haste and crit in single target, do you think it is a good idea to Crit=haste or should i prioritize crit over mastery ??

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 21 October, 2013, 15:13


      Read the post on front page about haste vs crit! Just balance stats, you can go higher crit on lower ilvl’s

  46. farewell
    farewell 21 October, 2013, 00:50

    Hey Spark,

    was just curious because Normal Thunderforged Breath of the Hydra isn’t in your trinkets list…but which would you consider to be better of the two:

    536 Breath of the Hydra (2/2)
    530 Wushoolay’s (2/2)

    I’m looking to replace one of them with the Flex Bindings of Immerseus.

    • ace
      ace 21 October, 2013, 06:00

      it is there the 530 hydra does 300 more dps than the normal wushu, so your thunderforged might do about 1k more :D

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 21 October, 2013, 15:15


      Ilvl nearly always beat trinket options, but it’s close call. I personally hate Breath and Wush can be good if you use it correctly.

  47. Erndog
    Erndog 22 October, 2013, 03:00

    Sparkuggz, as destro im a bit confused as when to you GoSup over GoSac? would you use go Go Sup in fights like galakras and spoils. Just trying to maximise dps as those 2 fights got alot of adds

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 22 October, 2013, 06:53


      Use goSac for pretty much anything. I guess Thok is the only real maybe, where you can use a pet.

      GoSac still increases Shadowbunr damage which is major on Galakras and Spoils

  48. Xotli
    Xotli 22 October, 2013, 16:21

    Is goSac for Garosch better than Go Sup

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 22 October, 2013, 16:55


      GoSac works perfectly fine, really well. Pet isn’t bad either on that fight though.

  49. Rogarr
    Rogarr 22 October, 2013, 23:57

    Hi Sparkuggz,

    lot of interesting diskussion goes on here. But what I realy miss is a bit more tricks n tips. Like good macros or anything like that. Specialy, how to realy fast assign havoc and shadowburn in this blure of TidyPlates.
    I often find it hard to get shadowburn on the right targets (got some weakauras/HP marker in tidyPlates and so on)

    blackfuse for example… this mines die to fucking fast, or even spoils. there are moments where there is so much to shadowburn… and then I feel like wasting to much ember, for not CB’ting the big mobs to ground… etcpp.

    also i often have some bug, that shadowburn + havoc doesnt work right. (shadowburn on mousovertarget gets out, but does not copy into havoc-target)

    loved to play affli / demo for roughly 10 years… and relativly new to destro, but since we are getting to 25hc blackfuse… maybe better destro there and later on (garrosh 25hc…)

    If anyone of you destro-pro’s knows some neat tricks… i’ll be realy thankfull

    PS: sorry with my bad engl.

  50. Hömér
    Hömér 23 October, 2013, 09:21

    Hi there !
    I also play with GoSac for most of fights but I have a doubt regarding my race (Orc) and the pet buff damage that it brings.

    Is GoSac better than Go Sup whatever the race or just for troll ?

    • kaokeno
      kaokeno 23 October, 2013, 13:49

      im actually curious about that myself. ive played gosac on a lot of fights where ive seen it do crazy amount of damage but then after i try it with gosup i find myself doing more damage (as orc) than with sac. idk if its just something im doing wrong in the rotation but i havent done anything different beside just swaping the talent on the fights.

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 24 October, 2013, 18:11


        It’s probably because they do a lot more shadowburns then you do. Orc + GoSup isn’t really gamebreaking, the orc wasn’t even BiS for Demonology back when we used pet’s and imp’s for like 60% of our damage vs troll.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 October, 2013, 18:10


      Check the DPS list of Grimoire’s. GoSac is rather far ahead, regardless what race tbh.

  51. Zephonix
    Zephonix 23 October, 2013, 16:40

    Hey Spark! =) Awesome guide thanks.. just a fast question
    Why off hand and main hand? why no two handed staff?? Thanks!!!!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 October, 2013, 18:39


      Off hand and main hand is generally always better, staff is better at beginning because you only use 2 VP upgrades on it vs 4 on mh + oh. In the end, it’s nothing major and as long as you get a warforged weapon you are fine!

  52. Bevey
    Bevey 23 October, 2013, 18:34

    Hey Spark

    You say that the shoulders off Norushen are BiS however the hit/mastery shoulders off Protectors (http://www.wowhead.com/item=104445) have slightly more mastery. Would that make them slightly better. I assume that they are pretty much equal in practice but I was just wondering your reasoning behind it.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 October, 2013, 18:41


      remember we don’t want hit on items, because we want to use Expertise + Mastery gems, thus the crit / mastery shoulders give better stats. In the end it’s nothing major, BIS is a overused word, it’s just a guideline for some gear setup. If you swap an item the difference is minimal regardless, so pick whatever. With how we have warforged items these days you wont ever really get BiS gear or optimal gear. Just make own judgement calls, but the hit on the shoulders aren’t optimal as we want to use the gems!

  53. haydees
    haydees 23 October, 2013, 20:03

    First off ty for all guides and information and guides, ur the shit. Im human destro lock, wonderin now that im 550 and tryin higher raiding if worth race changing to worgen. Or not big enough diff to matter, i just human for gear looks.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 October, 2013, 18:42


      Race changing always matter, but human and worgen is close for Destruction regardless as long as you use a sword for the 1% hit bonus

  54. Exillium
    Exillium 23 October, 2013, 22:30

    Hey Spark
    I’m kind a new with warlock class my item lvl atm is 558 and cant decide which reforge is better for single target mostly..I know theoritically best is Mastery->Crit->Haste..but its seems better for me with Mastery->Haste->Crit..Testing at dummy and with second haste stat i can keep my dps higher for much longer then Crit reforge.So my question is for (SoO) heroic what should i chose becouse i cant decide.Same for Grimoire of Supremacy and Grimoire of Sacrifice for signle target ofc cant decide which is better.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 October, 2013, 18:51


      You can never trust just hitting a dummy, never. Try to check my post haste vs crit, it shows the little difference the impact of you choosing between haste and crit (when it comes to switching the secondary stats after mastery) really makes. Nearly nothing!

      • Infin
        Infin 25 October, 2013, 03:24

        Glad to hear that! It’s nice to be able to keep haste for destro because it allows me to switch to affliction on fights where i can meter pad (a la protectors)

  55. Xziino
    Xziino 25 October, 2013, 18:31

    Hey Sparkuggz =)

    just a short question. u got that addon which tells u when to refresh ur immolate (i guess) but i cant find it in ur addon list. can u tell me the name of that addon?

    • Lykasha
      Lykasha 26 October, 2013, 13:34

      Hey Xziino,

      I think you mean AffDots and it should be in Sparkuggz’s addon list. =)

      You can configure it for destruction, so that it only shows immolate.
      With default settings as a destruction lock the addon also shows up RoF, conflag and some more spells included.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 27 October, 2013, 11:35


      Uhm, i dont have anything telling me to refresh. I have affdots timers and i have classtimer (for dot timer)

  56. Emmettior
    Emmettior 26 October, 2013, 14:02

    Hey, do you have a dark soul weakaura string I can use?

  57. Roblinz
    Roblinz 26 October, 2013, 18:17

    I am currently wearing 561 Rime-Rift shoulders and 567 wf Ulmass’

    • Roblinz
      Roblinz 26 October, 2013, 18:20

      Edit* I am currently wearing 561 Rime-Rift shoulders and 567 wf Ulmass’ Robes of Crushing Magma. My question is would it be better to replace the chest with 561 tier and the shoulders with flex tier to gain the 4 pc bonus?

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 27 October, 2013, 11:38


        When you talk so specific small item level differences vs 4p or 2p, your only hope is to simulate what difference it makes on single target. It’s too specific scenario you put up for me to really say this or that. 4P is good, but vs the scenario you put up it’ becomes a fine line wether an upgrade or not.

  58. Imagnomeonwow
    Imagnomeonwow 26 October, 2013, 23:56

    Hey Spark, (or other warlocks on this website :D) I’ve just got a question relating to gear preferences. Recently I’ve managed to obtain a flexi version of my shoulders, which means I now have the 2 set bonus. Is it worth replacing my warforged normal shoulders just for this bonus or do the stats of the warforged normal outweigh what the set bonus can provide? Thanks!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 27 October, 2013, 11:40


      It should be worth it for 2P, but as i state to others with same question. Simulate it vs each other to get an idea on a single target fight what DPS you are looking at to make a judgement call. I don’t know the exact values of each tier bonus in my head and the difference of the item level isn’t major so i would assume the 2P would win

  59. NewWarlock
    NewWarlock 27 October, 2013, 23:46

    Since mastery is better per point then intellect would it be possible for Windsong enchantment to pull ahead of the Jade Spirit enchant?

    • Lykasha
      Lykasha 28 October, 2013, 08:22

      Hey NewWarlock,

      I’m sorry, but I have to correct you. :)

      1 mastery isn’t better than 1 Int.
      But 2 Mastery is better than 1 Int.

      That is why the mastery gem pulls ahead – because you earn twice as much mastery then int.

      Windsong can only proc 1.500 mastery, crit OR haste
      but jadespirit still procs 1.000 Int – so that makes the jadespirit the better choice.

      Even the point that windsong can “double”-proc isn’t changing anything. A lot of times you will get crit or haste procs – which isn’t as good as mastery.

      Hope I could help you out and that you will trust in my words*. ;)

      *my words are just copied from Sparkuggz, because he already answered this question somewhere else. :>

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 28 October, 2013, 16:02


      What Lykasha said!

  60. Korean guy
    Korean guy 28 October, 2013, 22:43

    I really appriciate your guide

    How about your pet?

    give a cool-headed assessment of my character

  61. Gorky
    Gorky 29 October, 2013, 06:56

    yesterday during our raid i came up with a question.
    as i have read, in 5.4 rain of fire single target should not be used in most cases.
    so here is the question – Mannaroths Fury + rain of fire on single target. is it dps gain? or a waste of global.

    • Lykasha
      Lykasha 29 October, 2013, 09:49

      If you talk about the Galakras fight.
      I think it is only worth it together with HT + Meta proc and some backdraft stacks up.
      Under the listed conditions you might get a 0,8 ~ 0,9 sec incinerate cast time and it could be worth it to lay down a RoF.

      Pretty interested in how Sparkuggz handles that…

      Because… Everytime we come to that point where the big protodrake crashes down the sky my brain goes like: Uh a big drake. Awesome! *-* Now.. ährm what to do. No more AoE.. How to keep up DPS… Damn, am I doing it right with this big RoFy thing? >_>

      Should I lay down a RoF with the meta and totem proc? *tic tac* Dammit. Now I wasted 1 ~ 2 sec of my trinket proc with figuring out what to do – AGAIN! :(

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 29 October, 2013, 11:52


        I normally avoid using RoF if i have trinket procs and i use it with 2 targets+ or if 1 target and i have haste procs with the option of one more target to maybe arrive soon too. Else just ignore it on single target, even if you do not or do use it with haste procs it won’t impact your DPS for any noticeable change.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 29 October, 2013, 11:50


      It’s a DPS gain most likely, and you can still use Rain of Fire with lust / meta gem on single target.

  62. Jugment
    Jugment 29 October, 2013, 16:21

    Hey Spark I need your wisdom for a moment: my ilvl is 526 /w slightly more haste then crit reforge and without flask and food i’m only doing 110-120k dps in a five minute session. I followed the full rotation guide (ds always in cd, immolate always up, have 3 embers for trinket procs) and as i said I’m only doing 110-120k dps. What might the problem be? Thanks for your help and the great guide

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 October, 2013, 13:57


      Your gear :D? I doubt you are supposed to pull much higher numbers at that ilevel on a dummy

  63. Immunize
    Immunize 30 October, 2013, 08:19

    Hey Spark, people keep talking about the Glyph of Demon Training, which gives your imp reduced casting time and it fires in bursts, Is it worth taking it and using imp instead of observer?

    • Nox
      Nox 30 October, 2013, 17:26

      The glyph isn’t as good as people may think. What it does is that the Imp shoots 3 bolts and then takes a long pause. Skada and Recount will show you a higher dps with the glyph, but if you check damage done, it’s approx the same as without glyph (crits are the deciding factor).

      And sacrifice > all pets

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 October, 2013, 13:57


      Doens’t make much difference. You can use the Imp without a problem though

  64. Anartt
    Anartt 30 October, 2013, 15:46

    Spurk not prompt the problem reforging: at 562 ilvl I speed 11308, 14727 mastery, crit 5702. If you can help http://eu.battle.net/wow/ru/character/ashenvale/Анартт/advanced. Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english

  65. CMwarlock
    CMwarlock 30 October, 2013, 22:14

    Hey, spark, just a quick question here, I’ve been told that the AoE damage that the infernal does is so little that it should never be used, and that the terrorguard will do more damage overall, even when there are more than four targets. Is this true? Should the infernal basically never be used unless the AoE stun is needed?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 October, 2013, 14:06


      Infernal is useless, it really does no damage. It might do same or very slightly more damage on stable AoE for its full duration, but what encounters have that? None really, so i dont really like it.

  66. Greenif
    Greenif 30 October, 2013, 23:34

    Im lazy to calc it :D 574 spoil wand + 566 jug off-hand vs 574 sha staff? D:

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 October, 2013, 14:07


      And you want me to do it for you : ) ? Normally ilvl > wins, staff vs oh is mainly around the fact you get more intellect cuz of oh enchant, but with the stats on items, it can also make a 1h+oh better if you get more of the stats you want with higher value.

  67. Arodien
    Arodien 31 October, 2013, 00:40

    Hey Sparkuggz!
    I’m new to playing warlock and I dinged 90 some days ago. I have about 506 ilvl atm from lfr and such, and I was wondering if that about of dps I do is low or not. At single target dps on a raid dummy (selfbuffed) I do about 90k stable dps. It feels kinda low and I was just wondering if warlock maybe scales better with good gear or if I’m doing something wrong?
    Thank you in advance!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 October, 2013, 14:08


      I can’t really remotely say if you are doing something wrong. You obviously don’t do much damage at low item level, you dont just ding a warlock and do 400k+ dps with it

  68. BaleFire
    BaleFire 31 October, 2013, 02:56

    I have not seen you say anything about CB with GoSac, do we weave an incinerate in between every cast or just spam it and lose a tick off the dot?

    Also, thanks for all the work you put into this, means a lot to us all. :)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 October, 2013, 13:56


      note ** under rotoation “(**) “Remember that if you play with Grimoire of Sacirfice your Chaos Bolt leaves a dot, the dot can be clipped too early if you are close and cast back to back Chaos Bolt’s. Make sure you fill with a spell between each Chaos Bolt as you want the maximum amount of ticks from it. In case everything procs and is about to fade so you can’t delay your CB, don’t bother about this rule.””

  69. Joseph
    Joseph 31 October, 2013, 18:00

    At what point is it better to start prioritizing mastery over crit? all I know is crit is better at “low” ilvls

    • Spencer
      Spencer 1 November, 2013, 23:37

      Correct me if I’m wrong Spark but I’m pretty sure mastery is *always* better than crit, point for point.

    • Nox
      Nox 2 November, 2013, 10:57

      Until you feel you have enough embers.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:13


      You go mastery at all ilvl’s if you “raid”. Just no point to go crit above mastery

  70. Starks
    Starks 1 November, 2013, 21:14

    Hi Sparkuggz ! Can you please explain to me which spec is the best for every fight?

    Like : Immersus Go Affliction , Sha of Pride Go Destruction , that’s really helpful

    And sorry my english is not so good but i’m trying to explain me , if u can please post this or answer me will help me a lot thanks and Greetings !

    • Infin
      Infin 5 November, 2013, 07:16

      I think based on his previous posts and with simcraft being correct now, I think destro is considered the highest DPS spec on all fights.
      That said, I personally like to use affliction on fallen protectors (there are just so many things to constantly have dotted) and Thok (for ease of use).

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 5 November, 2013, 15:19


        Nonono, it’s highest in simcraft, but its not highest on all fights in SoO. Affliction is best in my opinion on several fights including jugger and malkarok tbh. If not better, at least equal. Protectors its far ahead of the other specs. Think it’s safe to say affliction + destruction = SoO specs

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:14


      Impossible to do such thing, what you can do is watch World of Logs and get an idea of whta specs pulls the most “numbers” for each fight. Some are so close they are pretty equal

  71. Spencer
    Spencer 1 November, 2013, 23:35

    Any advice on how to manage the set bonuses this tier? Particularly the 4P?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:16


      4P you just try to renew immolate if nothign important is on it (remember it’s ½ a DS). Else continue rotation, get a CB in if you have a lot of embers and we much rather use it during 4P then use it without anything in this case.

  72. James
    James 2 November, 2013, 08:22

    Hey spark, so I have a question. After rolling over to the alliance side I notice that humans get a racial bonus for using swords. In your BiS list you say the wand is better for warlocks in general but what about if they are human who passively get 1% hit from using swords/daggers? what then would be BiS? Would it still be the wand or would it be the sword off nazgrim reforging into mastery or the dagger on klaxxi? I am 10/14 heroic atm and I would prefer not to take our disc priest BiS if it is not mine as I am a human. Trying to get a better idea of what my BiS weapon is. Thank you :)

    • James
      James 2 November, 2013, 08:45

      I have actually one more question after reading everyone elses comments. You say haste is better than crit but how much haste is ideal and is their a point where you want to say WHOA thats too much haste i need to reforge it to crit?

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:18


        Never said haste was “better” then crit, but it’s not important and pointless to argue much about. All stats are pretty equal, crit scales with certain fights and haste with others. There is no haste cap to go for at all. There isn’t really a WHOA cap tbh, but i guess for single target you could try to lower your haste a bit, but for cleave and AoE you dont mind the haste at all.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:16


      If you get 1% stat from a weapon, you should use it tbh. 1% in raiting is way more then the difference of stats you gain from one weapon to another.

      • James
        James 6 November, 2013, 05:35

        Ok thank you. just wondering what would you use if in my position. the heroic naz sword & heroic jugg offhand or the Sha of pride heroic staff. one i gain alot of mastery from but main hand and offhand give more int and the 1% hit. very close call on my part i would just rather have someone as good as yourself give me there own opinion.

        • James
          James 6 November, 2013, 05:40

          also how much of an increase would it be? like i said i only roll on my BiS items so i am trying to make sure i don’t take gear from someone who actually would need it for BiS or even offspec BiS.

          • Sparkuggz
            Sparkuggz 7 November, 2013, 16:59


            you need to calculate the stats gain vs loss to see how much gain or not it is :D

        • Sparkuggz
          Sparkuggz 7 November, 2013, 16:56


          Add up the stats and compare what you gain and loose, see if it’s a worthy ugprade. But 1% hit raiting is quite a few stats

  73. Turzel
    Turzel 2 November, 2013, 17:52

    Two Words
    You Rock!

  74. Xephen
    Xephen 3 November, 2013, 07:05

    Hey Spark,

    Thanks so much for the guide! Can you say what kind of mouse/keyboard you are using with you UI?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:24


      Razer blackwidow and Razer Mamba, going to try a Naga soon

      • Xephen
        Xephen 10 November, 2013, 01:07

        I’ve used a Naga for a long time. They’re awesome, but I can tell you that it will take several hours of playtime to get really proficient with that mouse.

  75. ace
    ace 3 November, 2013, 16:09

    Hey Sparks.
    I am a confused about something brusalk said, he is claiming right now that single target is H>C>M and I simmed that and thats a dps loss.?? you think he is right he is a credible warlock

    • James
      James 4 November, 2013, 00:34

      Brusalk i believe never said for single target is H>C>M. I believe he may have said M>C>H which is best “Single” target and even sparkuggz says that. I hope this helps, Brusalk is a very respected destro warlock with also some guides. I don’t think he would mis-lead someone to believe that mastery is bad for destro.

      • James
        James 4 November, 2013, 00:36

        notice as Brusalk goes M>H>C which is best multi target/cleave.

        http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/Brusalk/simple

      • shizwix
        shizwix 4 November, 2013, 10:04

        No, he did say that. The problem is people take things way too literally.

        All the stats are incredibly close for single target. You can literally reforge how you want and do fine. Sims also do not reflect real encounters.

        Last 10m hc malkorok I did with 14k haste > mastery > crit. I ranked and did better than ever. This was because I never stopped moving. My chaos bolt damage was awful. My trinket didnt proc on the pull.

        I did so well because of the sheer haste I had meant I was firing off incinerates constantly. And my damage was saved.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 5 November, 2013, 15:08


      No, Mastery > Mastery > Mastery. Even on multi target and 2-4 and +AoE. If you swap gear setups you would see that going full haste don’t gain you any DPS. Just becuase the stat weight shows haste higher, doesn’t mean it’s better to stack. I guess all he tried to say or i hope so at least is that haste and crit is no real difference, even mastery is no real difference on fewer targets. Simming stable 2-8 targets, dont really value real encounters either, so i don’t know why it’s used as an argument for how mastery works ingame vs on the sims.

  76. Rinal
    Rinal 5 November, 2013, 16:46

    Hey Sparkuggz.

    Im new to this class. I only play destro, and go with Grimoire of Sacrifice . Im bit confused about the stats. You whrite that haste does not go well whit Grimoire of Sacrifice ? but yet you self have gone mastery-haste in reforge? currently i have have 16,72% in crit,3695 in haste and 88,35 in mastery whit at gear lvl of 531. Is that totally wrong?

    Sorry for the bad English:S and thanks for a great guide:D

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:30


      Uhm, that must have been a mistake, haste is fine with any grimoire, it just scales better with a pet then without.

  77. Hucknell
    Hucknell 5 November, 2013, 17:48

    SimCraft is giving me some witchcraft results, it is suggesting the following stat weights:

    INT: 7.13
    HIT: 6.64
    HASTE: 3.69
    CRIT: 4.60
    MASTERY: 3.47

    Any clue what I might be doing horribly wrong?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 November, 2013, 00:32


      Looks like you are the 500-530 area of item level? The secondary stats has very low value for you, which is normal in that area. But everytime you sim with 1x stat high, you get a worse stat weight then if you simmed with any of the other stats at high. Like if you have 18k haste, you get low haste value, if you sim with 18k mastery you normally get a lower value. It’s not always the case, but it is a lot of the time. So once people start to reforge they might loose dps because they switch to 18k haste over mastery or something silly.

  78. Johan
    Johan 6 November, 2013, 02:01

    I wonder why there’s a expertise/Mastery gem at the guide?
    I am quite new at the warlock so still things I do not understand :)

    • Ken
      Ken 6 November, 2013, 03:10

      In Simc,2 Mastery/Haste/Crit >1 Int.If your gear has not enough Hit,you would reforge Mastery/Haste/Crit.But the Exp/Mastery gem could save the M/H/C stat from your gear.That is you use 80 Int reforge 160 M/H/C.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 7 November, 2013, 16:56


      Expertise = spell hit

  79. Decay
    Decay 6 November, 2013, 16:33

    Is it worth to go for heroic totem + 548 immerseus or should i leave totem and black blood normal wf in destro

  80. Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 11 November, 2013, 01:19

    Should I go normal 4 pieces over heroic warforged head piece?

  81. Venkx
    Venkx 12 November, 2013, 18:06

    do you really recommend using SB when the boss is under 20%? if there’s something to cleave it on through havoc i totally agree, but let’s take malkorok for example – boss is under 20% and i cast 3 shadowburns, even if 2 of them actually do crit, it would be less than 3 chaosbolts.
    Just some rough numbers on a target dummy without trinket proccs:
    SB without crit: 350k; SB Crit: 700k
    CB crit: 620k
    but if i add dark soul to the equation the CB damage goes up to 820k
    and because there’s no guaranteed crit on SB and doesn’t even scale with crit like CB, i think it would be better to just stick with CB’s, especially with dark soul / skullbanner /4P (maybe some exceptions if there’s heavy movement)
    would like to hear your opinion on that.

    sorry for the long post, wasn’t intended that way^^

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 15 November, 2013, 10:39


      Me and Gabzz did rather a lot of theory on this, and it’s rather complicated.

      First off
      - Shadowburn hits are useless comparing it to CB
      - Chaosbolt scales with everything

      Dark soul and 4p provides purely crit, which only gives you a RNG chance for Shadowburn to crit. Now a SB critting is way more damage pr execute then a CB, because it’s also instant.

      If you simulate, the best option is to use Shadowburn as a filler, with stuff like 4P proc 15% crit and use CB with any procs, haste intellect etc.

      Though, if you do crit most of your shadowburns, it will still be better, if you completly disregard shadowburn you will loose simulated dps as well.

      Basically it’s not really worth the effort to think too much about. IF it makes sense to cast CB, do it. If it makes sense to shadowburn, do that.

      I would always CB if i have haste procs + trinekts, and i would use shadowburn if i have an ember right before trinket procs fade that i wont make with casting CB.

      If shadowburn doensn’t crit, it cost you 2x embers to do nearly same damage as a CB, which isn’t good either. You do get an incinerate in after the cast, but it’s not really that much.

      That’s a bunch of thoughts on the topic, and you can kind of try to make your own judgement call. Generally if you have a lot of crit shadowburn has a high rng chance to be worth it by far over CB, but without much yea shadowburn is rather RNG if it will be good or equal.

  82. Horuss
    Horuss 13 November, 2013, 17:35

    Hi Spark,

    Awesome job. I have a simple question regarding stats, I already read that mastery is king and I am prioritizing it over the others but I have a question for you.

    Have you ever used Ask Mr Robot? If you had, how much weight do you put in the stats? And what do you think about this automated websites that suggest things for you to use and accommodate things automatically. Do you think it is good to use them or do you prefer the old “manual” reforging and geming.

    Thank you.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 15 November, 2013, 10:41


      Well, Mr reforge is good for some things, but the numbers arent accurate for most situations. Then you would need to figure them out yourself in every situation which isnt humanly possible. You need to understand what the stats do, then you can easier figure out why we go for x or y. That’s why we make rough guidelines, because you can never find the perfect spot, it doesn’t excist.

  83. snaskberta
    snaskberta 13 November, 2013, 20:09

    How much haste is worth sacrificing for crit at higher itemlevel when going for GoSac? atm im down to 5.8k haste 8.4k crit and 19.7k mastery.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 15 November, 2013, 10:42


      Doesn’t matter much, try to check the haste vs crit post i made, you are talking about hundred of dps, far below 0,1% difference in your DPS. But i prefer haste over crit

  84. Triplew
    Triplew 15 November, 2013, 12:22

    Excellent guide for warlocks, u do this job very well i hope that u keep it up!!
    Anyway. Is [Frenzied Crystal of Rage] from Malkorok more useful than toxic totem for AoE fights as Destro?

  85. Zamykaj
    Zamykaj 16 November, 2013, 12:46

    No enchants?

  86. Declair
    Declair 16 November, 2013, 19:23

    wouldn’t alchimist with elixier best?

  87. Declair
    Declair 16 November, 2013, 19:26

    *they see me trolling*

  88. Thomas
    Thomas 16 November, 2013, 21:24

    When I run SimCraft, Do you just use the statweights it puts out with Reforgelite?

  89. Ahmad
    Ahmad 16 November, 2013, 22:43

    hey dude
    can u help me plz If u can , I need to stop searching for best reforge :) http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Shagagy/advanced

  90. Spaceboogies
    Spaceboogies 17 November, 2013, 03:59

    is there a reason why you personally are running a high haste build, u seem to favour mastery>haste>crit quite heavily, is this just so you can switch between destro and afflic, is so, how come you go for 14.5k haste not the standard 9778 haste rating. any clarification on this would be great.

    • Chase
      Chase 17 November, 2013, 19:59

      I would think the reason sparkz favors haste > crit is because for heroic raiding (especially on a fight such as siegecrafter) you want to be able to move for mechanics a lot and getting your chaos bolts off at times can be tricky which is where haste comes in handy. The difference between haste and crit is already small in a patchwerk style fight but when you think about getting a few chaos bolts off with a BBoY max stacks or not through out a fight it makes more sense to stack hit.

      Reference: Personal experience :)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 28 November, 2013, 13:19


      It’s just better imo overall when it comes to in game play vs theory

  91. lolwarlock
    lolwarlock 19 November, 2013, 07:43

    In your Garrosh kill video, to the left side of your health bar you track your raid’s skull banners. I’m sure you get asked this a lot but what addon are you using to track the cooldown and duration ?

  92. Warlock
    Warlock 20 November, 2013, 04:02

    wheres the opener video, rotation and stuffs about destru ??? =P
    nice job sparky, keep it up! ty !

  93. Gweyn
    Gweyn 21 November, 2013, 02:19

    So I’m just curious I have a 554 ilvl (not sure if this is a contributor) and I downloaded simcraft, when I ran it and I’ve tried multiple stat changes and what not, it always comes up haste>crit>mastery or haste>crit>~mastery. Your guide says that mastery should be your primary stat no matter what with crit and haste pretty much interchangeable am I doing something wrong that mastery is not showing up as my primary stat? Is there something I should be selecting in SimCraft that I am missisng?

    • Avery
      Avery 27 November, 2013, 04:49

      This is happening to me as well. (559 ilvl, high mastery ect.) I’m going to re-sim and see what I get.

    • Avery
      Avery 27 November, 2013, 20:11

      After running simcraft a few times and looking at other warlocks that are going heavy mastery, they have much better gear levels that passively have 30-35% haste without gem/enchants for haste. When our gear levels get to that amount of haste, I believe the heavy mastery build will be king, but for lower gear levels, I am going to go heavier haste and try to keep mastery at a decent level. I was at 105% mastery, and 20% haste. So I’m checking that out.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 28 November, 2013, 13:22


      Think you are overusing the point of Simulationcraft and blindly following a tool that is just there to help you work out some things. Watch out doing what you are doing, it’s just a simulation program!

  94. Bibamus
    Bibamus 27 November, 2013, 15:07

    Regarding gems, red slots specifically, considering i can get hit capped by just reforging crit/haste to hit, would it be better or worse to drop int+mastery gems for expertiese+mastery gems to get hit capped, so that i lose int instead of haste crit.
    Basically my question is as follows: is 2 crit/haste > 1 int?
    At the moment i have the option to drop about 1.1k int for about 10% mastery, but it just doesn’t seem right.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 28 November, 2013, 13:26


      Rule of thumb is to go for expertise + mastery gems for raiding, so you can get more mastery and secondary stats above intellect and avoid having to reforge out of secondary stats for hit.

      2x Crit / Haste is most of the time at raiding ilvl > intellect. It’s mainly at low item level they go under

  95. Kevin
    Kevin 4 December, 2013, 17:59

    Hey Spark,

    I was wondering what your opinion on hit capping is. Is getting 15% really that crucial?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/K%C3%A8vinlol/simple

    I’m running around 14.96% and I see arguments for both sides to be fairly valid. On one side, the chance to miss a 2 million chaos bolt should push a player to just hit cap and not worry about it any further; however, the other side of the argument indicates that the miss chance is so low that mitigating the possibility of missing to 0% (AKA mitigating an extremely low probability event to an event with 0 probability) is pointless if it happens once a raid night, if even that. Taking the second argument further, the idea is to bolster the impact of high probability events by hiitting your spells slightly harder 100% of the time because you have mastery instead of hit, and in the EXTREMELY rare case in which you miss, and for that miss to be a chaos bolt that’s going to hit for 2-2.6 million (opener CB’s and CB’s on 8-10 stacks of Black blood), is futile because it’s possible that it’ll actually NEVER happen to you.

    So, to sump up my question again, even though it’s an extreme case of min maxing I’m not sure whether or not I should move up to 15% or to >15% hit, or just stay at my lvl which is, in effect, pretty much hit capping due to how rare misses actually are. I can’t actually remember the last time I did miss, to be honest.

    Thanks!

    • Infectika
      Infectika 5 December, 2013, 21:47

      I am at 14.89% and did a flex Garrosh last night with some friends and im pretty sure a Chaos Bolt missed.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:52


      15% hit cap is mandatory imo. You can risk it, but that moment when you miss important spells you feel annoyed. There’ is no real need to risk it. If you play farm and do a boss “once” pr week, your will have _1 chance_ to get lucky, and you will decrease your luck by risking to miss.

      Famous example is Kuznam on ToT Lei Shen, where he was 0,01% under hit cap and misses his opener combust. You might as well afk the whole boss back when combust was 99% of your damage : )

  96. Cesar
    Cesar 10 December, 2013, 12:25

    Spark wondering if I should break T16 4p for heroic warforged items… Or should I just wait till i get t16 h pieces

  97. Thaenatos
    Thaenatos 10 December, 2013, 19:02

    By yulons bit do you mean the 2/2 upgraded 543 trinket or the upgraded 504 one?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:44


      It’s the 535 one

      • Thaenatos
        Thaenatos 21 January, 2014, 18:53

        Thanks for the reply! Now I am primarily a pvper so take what I say with a grain of salt. But after some testing and getting the LFR Immerseus trinket finally I have come up with some slightly different results then expected.

        I currently have 3 trinkets (all 2/2upgraded):
        LFR Kadris
        LFR Immerseus
        543 Yulons bite

        I find that my dps per combo ranks:

        Immerseus + Yulon > Kadris + Yulon > Immerseus + Kadris

        Granted Im only trying to get the best gear I can for leveling so Im sure normal leve or even your level gear is probably different (missing my 4 set), but for now Ill just be sticking with immerseus and yulon until my dummy testing proves otherwise. Thanks again for all the work you do as it helps a PVPer like myself shoot for the right gear without having to do a terrible amount of theorycrafting. :)

  98. joh
    joh 11 December, 2013, 03:29

    Great Guide Spark!

    I have a question:
    You have got 2 Dark Soul charges what is the best time to use the 2. ?

    1. Dark Soul Opener

    and the 2. Dark Soul Charge right after the 1. ended if BL poped at the start?
    or
    Wait for any trinket/embers for the 2. dark soul if you have 1 on CD? (and ignore BL)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:43


      Normally you pair up the 2nd DS with major procs if you have bad procs. Try to time it with the most benefits of buffs you get

  99. Allerija
    Allerija 13 December, 2013, 23:34

    Hello Spark!

    I have a question – which weapons should I use… the wand with the offhand or the heirloom staff from garrosh (which I got couple secs ago)? … There a plenty warlocks who tell me I should go with the heirloom staff… however… the stats?

    (I’m sorry for my bad english :x)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:42


      Depends on item leve,, whatever gives you the most stats (intellect, mastery etc.) will be best. If you have WF MH + OH that is far better than Hierloom staff.

  100. Rinal
    Rinal 19 December, 2013, 08:56

    Hey Sparkuggz:) And merry Christmas for you:) Just noticed that Soul link dont provide Health any more:(
    So was wondering, Would it be better to use Supremacy now? Ore is it still Sacrifice is the best talent for destro?

    • Rinal
      Rinal 19 December, 2013, 08:59

      Dont look at what i wrote above, just a brain fart from me-.- note to self dont ask question, when you dont have got any coffe-.-

  101. Immunize
    Immunize 19 December, 2013, 15:32

    Hey spark! Just a fast question about doomguard. Should i always use doomguard on bl/hero or under 20%?
    or just when bursting?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:41


      Normally it should be better during execute, but sometimes it’s too hard or the execute phase don’t last long enough paired up with the fact you might forget it 50% of the time, which equals that using it in the opener is overall saver and often times more DPS looking at the bigger picture. I normally use it in the opener on most fight’s

  102. That1creature
    That1creature 19 December, 2013, 22:23

    Hey Spark quick question about what trinket i should take for destro.

    I can’t figure out if i should take Kardri’s Toxic Totem over Black Blood of Y’Shaarj?

    Currently I am using:
    Black Blood of Y’Shaarj (normal)
    Immerseus trink (heroic)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:39


      Purified (Must have)
      Toxic Totem > BB except if there is a big ilvl difference

  103. Mekanik
    Mekanik 20 December, 2013, 20:11

    Hi Sparkuggz

    Nice guide.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=101745

    Mango Ice. +300 Mastery food. Recipe is a pain to get but mats are reasonably easy to find.

    Keep up the excellent work. It is highly appreciated.

    Mek

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 20 December, 2013, 21:39


      Nono, don’t use that. 1 Mastery isn’t better then 1 Intellect, so you wouldn’t want to do that. It’s when we are up at the 2 Mastery vs 1 Intellect area we prefer Mastery!

      • Danjackiels
        Danjackiels 9 January, 2014, 08:29

        hehe, i think you have explained that arround 1000 times now. :x
        Maybe a banner on your website would help. ;)

  104. Moxxie
    Moxxie 22 December, 2013, 21:40

    Ahoy Sparky!
    I got a simple question! You see, i’m currently a normal raider, trying to progress in heroic. And, this reset i got super lucky, and head from Immerseus dropped, and shoulders from Norushen (Both on heroic) Should i use the head, then go 4set with normal gear, and discard the shoulders? OR should i scrap 4set bonus and take 2 heroic items instead?
    Currently im rolling with Destruction. I hope you can answer! :)
    And awesome guide, Sparky

    • Moxxie
      Moxxie 22 December, 2013, 22:02

      Also, my character is Moxxie – Twisting Nether, if you want to take a look!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 December, 2013, 11:44


      Don’t scrap the 4 set and you should use the shoulders from norushen for more overall mastery, merry xmas!

  105. øx
    øx 28 December, 2013, 22:08

    What do you think about Monk’s Elixir(750 mastery)? Don’t u think it’s worth using instead of the 1k int flask?

  106. Naz
    Naz 29 December, 2013, 04:26

    Is it worth losing the 2piece T16 bonus for a higher ilvl item? At least until i collect my 4 piece? I want to replace a raid finder tier chest for a flex mastery crit chest, but I will lose my 2 piece bonus.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 29 December, 2013, 04:59


      It’ sounds like a low upgrade, LFR to Flex to be worth it. I cant say for sure, but my rough guess would be it would be a downgrade, for sure if its a haste / crit chest

  107. twistted
    twistted 30 December, 2013, 04:40

    Hey spark i have a question bout 4pc. I have normal legs and hands, i also have flex tier chest and shoulders, but i currently have normal shoulders off norushen and normal chest off spoils equipped. I was wonderin if i was worth downgrading chest and shoulders losing that int for the 4 pc bonus

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 30 December, 2013, 13:19


      Try to simulate it, nobody in their right mind can calculate that in their head : ) I would say 4P with shoulder offpiece would be ur best bet, but i assume you dont have the tier head anyway

  108. dsl1
    dsl1 8 January, 2014, 16:28

    Any reason why you dropped blacksmithing for tailoring?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 8 January, 2014, 17:56


      I was herbalist. Tailoring is better then BS imo though. BS is just passive stats, which is always a bit worse if you can use your procs optimal. Though BS is better then any of the passive int stats!

  109. Shaxeey
    Shaxeey 11 January, 2014, 09:34

    Any chance you could submit a more recent video of any boss as destro?

  110. BaleFire
    BaleFire 15 January, 2014, 00:49

    You kinda answered this, but I just wanted to check if you had done the math, would 5 Heroic War forged items be worth dumping Tier? 580 is a high item level. I have 3 so far, and was going to start trying to coin the last two, even if its only for leveling to 100 LOL.

  111. Ahmad
    Ahmad 18 January, 2014, 20:21

    Hi Sparkuggz I have these [Rime-Rift Shoulders] & [Shoulderpads of Dou Dou Chong] Which is the best for me i play As Desto :P

  112. Shaxeey
    Shaxeey 22 January, 2014, 07:52

    Hey sparkuggz. When u get a 4 set proc and your trinkets or on a 45-60sec cd do you use the crit change for a chaos bolt+immolate or just spam incinerate, which is more beneficial for dps?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 22 January, 2014, 08:32


      Not sure i get what you mean here?

      • Shaxeey
        Shaxeey 22 January, 2014, 09:59

        sry for retarded spelling lol, i meant when you get a 4 set proc do you use it for chaos bolts or incinerates?

        • Sparkuggz
          Sparkuggz 22 January, 2014, 10:45


          You “fill” the not so needed CB with 4P, else you just try to roll immolate with it (if you have no major procs rolling already, and it’s about to fade soon) etc. Incinerate is mainly the thing we want to do when no procs are up at all.

  113. Demolow
    Demolow 26 January, 2014, 02:08

    Hey ! Thanks a lot for your website ;)
    Can you up your macros ? :D

  114. Ahmad
    Ahmad 27 January, 2014, 06:01

    Hey Spark , I Have (Leggings of Furious Flame) HC Warforge And Have (Rime-Rift Shoulders) Also HC , And Have (Shoulder Tier and Leg tier) normal , What should i go , use the HC`s Item and w8 for one of them As HC tier or just put the 4-set , If the best for me is using the 4-set , what should i use Shoulder tier or leg tier .
    Regard .

    • Liquidsteel
      Liquidsteel 27 January, 2014, 12:38

      4 Set is mandatory for Destruction, it’s just that good.

      I’d probably use the HCWF legs as the extra ilvl generally trumps whatever secondary stats it has, but you gain more Mastery and can keep your haste lower if you go with the Norushen shoulders. If you can’t stand haste as Destro then go with Norushen, otherwise I’d go with Furious Flame.

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 27 January, 2014, 20:27


        In my opinion you loose way too much mastery with the legs, i really dont like it vs the shoulders. You are so far behind on mastery for my taste. The headpiece from garrosh also has way more mastery then the tier head, while the legs are just the same

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 27 January, 2014, 20:27


      Use highest ilvl offpiece for now, but as i said to Liquid i’d prefer the shoulders any day over the legs

  115. Akrilu
    Akrilu 28 January, 2014, 20:27

    Hey Sparkuggz!

    This Guide is so awesome but i have a few question about the “Rotation”. My ilvl is 538 but i think this doesnt matter or?! I have to save 3-3½ ember for proccs ok. But i played my warlock like… i earn 3 ember and use them all istantly. DO i loose a lot of dmg there? Because of not using them with the Proccs?!

    The other question ist about Mutli Target Rotation for example Klaxxi in SOO. Do i have to reset all 3 [Immolate] on all targets all the time?!

    And one last question! When can i start to play with Grimoire of Sacrifice only?! What stats do i need?

    Sorry for my bad english! Hope u can help me :)
    Regard.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 29 January, 2014, 01:17


      Yep, not using your procs with the spells hurts you _A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOT_ it’s crucial you always use your CB at the right times or as good as you can. You should never mechanically sit and wait for 3 embers, then use, that’s really really wrong.

      Multi target, keep immolate on everything and just use your embers with procs

      Just play with Grimoire of Sacrifice from now on to get used to it, it’s better for every fight pretty much

      • Akrilu
        Akrilu 29 January, 2014, 09:08

        Big thanks to u :-) I appreciate ur answer!

        I hope this helps me to become better and better :-)

  116. Aqik
    Aqik 30 January, 2014, 16:56

    Hi!

    I’m wearing as destro now:

    2pc bonus (HC gloves and normal chest) and HC Hood of Swirling Senses (Immerseus), HC Rime Rift Shoulders (Norushen) and HC Leggings of Furious Flame (Juggernaut)

    Is it better to go with this items over the 4pc set bonus?
    I could equip normal Set-legs and normal Set-helmet.
    I’d loose mastery, haste and spellpower and gain just 100 critical rating and the 4pc bonus.
    What is better? Simcraft says: 4pc normal set > HC off set for destro..but I can’t believe that :D

  117. Slash
    Slash 31 January, 2014, 01:56

    Hey Sparkuggz! I have a question which has been bugging me for ages why do you favor Soul Link over Sacrificial pact? As Pact can be a very useful CD, what would be the benefits of using Soul Link?
    Thx for any info :)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 January, 2014, 03:09


      The passive reduction is just massive, cant really compare them. Reduces dmg at all times vs on use random times, not many situations when sl is so much passive sadly

      • Slash
        Slash 2 February, 2014, 17:29

        Thx for the reply, just reading that Soul Link + GOS increases your health by 20%, and doesn’t reduce damage, or is this information wrong?, Thanks.

        • Sparkuggz
          Sparkuggz 2 February, 2014, 21:50


          Ah you meant with Grimoire of Sacrifice. But yea same thing really stands, 20% HP is quite good, because you are toppped before most things hit these days. Hard to die from many mechanics with 900k health pool

  118. Skaithakk
    Skaithakk 31 January, 2014, 04:22

    Hey Spark I have both flex black blood and the toxic totem and I’m just wondering when should I use the toxic totem? cause I’ve just been rocking the bindings and black blood.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 31 January, 2014, 11:44


      Always use totem for destro unless you wanna play some rng game with single target. The multi prof is really good with esp gosac since it can proc off your big cb and sburns

  119. Skaithakk
    Skaithakk 1 February, 2014, 02:38

    oh, i was just going by your trinket list in the destro guide. I do like seeing the 1mil+ crits when the trinket procs. Also what do you mean “multi prof”?

  120. Skaithakk
    Skaithakk 1 February, 2014, 07:24

    Ahhh, So what you’re saying is i should use toxic totem at ilvl 546? Here’s my armory if you would be so kind as to give me any tips on my gear. Doing an alt 25man with a bunch of friends Saturday so I’m excited for that. :D

  121. Skaithakk
    Skaithakk 1 February, 2014, 07:25

    And of course I forgot to link it.. lol. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Durpindots/advanced

  122. Tomchy
    Tomchy 2 February, 2014, 17:04

    Hey Sparkuggz, thx for the awesome guide.

    I was wondering how we should handle the 4pc bonus in destro. After casting a Conflag, should we immediatly use Chaos Bolt to benefit from the 15% crit (even though no other procs are active) or should we just keep on waiting for big Intel procs to cast our CB?

    Cheers,

    Tom

    • Liquidsteel
      Liquidsteel 2 February, 2014, 18:34

      The 4 set isn’t a big proc for Chaos Bolt, but it’s better than nothing.

      The main use of the 4 set is to continuously buff immolate with the 15% crit buff. Helps ember gen quite a bit over the entire fight. You want 4 pc buffed immolates rolling on as many targets as possible basically.

      You can use it for chaos bolt if you’re close to capping. You can start by casting immolate + chaos bolt (there is time) when you hit 30 ember bits and get a proc, or for a trickier technique (but one which allows you to hover at a higher amount of ember bits in order to react to trinket procs) you can hit 39 ember bits, begin casting a chaos bolt, and aim to have an immolate crit push you over into 40 ember bits.

      I wouldn’t do conflag -> chaos bolt because then you just wasted 3 backdraft stacks.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 2 February, 2014, 21:51


      Pretty much what Liquid said,

      4P is the best filler for Immolate use, for more crit and ember regen. But it’s also a very viable tool for “CB” filler, since 15% crit is quite a lot for filling on your CB that would else be hitting with nothing. Rule of thumb is always to hit your CB with something rather than nothing, but Immolate is your main focus on the 4P proc if you are about to renew it

  123. Amk
    Amk 3 February, 2014, 01:07

    Hi!

    Which specc to choose for Thok HC Progress??

    573 gear, with 18700 mastery, 10200 haste, 5900 crit, toxic totem 561 and purified immerseus 574, 2pc bonus.

    I thought of Affliction for this fight because of the dots? Or could Demonology beat all specs because of Touch of Chaos while Thok is screeching?

    Regards!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 3 February, 2014, 17:28


      If you don’t have Black blood i would probably play Destruction. Affliction is very viable too, but Destruction is also very good

  124. Skaithakk
    Skaithakk 4 February, 2014, 03:52

    Spark, I don’t see how Totem is better than black blood at my ilvl. I see 1.5mil chaos bolt’s with black blood and i don’t see anything near that with totem. I’m not saying you’re wrong but could you explain more on how totem is better please. :)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 4 February, 2014, 15:42


      Well, multiple factors

      Blackblood has the highest intellect proc at max stack (not always you can properly line up CB with BBoY)
      - But toxic is a perm 15k intellect proc, beside that Totem also gives you 33% damage from original damage on spells (Multistrike) which can be 33% of a 3 million CB – Thus you end up with a lot of damage from Multistrike on an encounter

      You are correct the highest possible CB is obtained by BBoY (on ONE CB) but you are completly neglecting to count in all the variables that determine which trinket is better overall.

      That being said, it doesn’t really have anything to do with your item level, only if its one trinket ilvl vs the other

  125. Xcers
    Xcers 4 February, 2014, 17:39

    Great guide!
    But i have a question:
    Is it worth useing Chaos Bolt with our 4 pc 15% crit buff?
    (dont know if it makes any changes to say im 540 bearly normal raiding with binding flex and KTT LFR)
    -Xcers

  126. Sothing
    Sothing 5 February, 2014, 16:20

    I have one question, My ilvl is 558 should i be using sac all the time? if not what ilvl would you say i should start? I have a hard time making sac work on any fights right now. I use it on shamens and fallen protectors because of the havoc choas bolt bonus damage but the damage increase still seems minimal.

  127. Skaithakk
    Skaithakk 5 February, 2014, 16:47

    Awesome, thanks for the in depth details Spark!

  128. Mike
    Mike 6 February, 2014, 07:28

    Hey there!

    Quick question. Does the Amplify effect of PBoI not make Haste significantly better than Crit? As apposed to equal.

    The Amplify effect increases your Haste,Mastery by a straight up percentage. Haste just gets 8% better, because you just get 8% more. Crit however doesn’t, since you don’t get 8% more crit, you get 8% more crit damage which is not nearly as impressive. It just doesn’t seem like a lot of these guides factors that into the equation. Whilst Mastery and Haste go to 108.51% (+ baseline value) Crit still stays at 100% but the Crit damage goes to 208.51% (+ baseline value)

    I was using AMR with stat valuation set at Mastery > Crit > Haste but it was doing Mastery > Haste > Crit and I had no idea why. You should include this note that amplify trinkets will straight up change your stat weights.

    Thought?

    Regards

    Mike

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 February, 2014, 14:45


      8% crit modifier means that everytime you crit you get 8% more out of it, which still makes critting good.

      For Destruction, the crit modifier is the _BIGGEST_ damage increase of anything, thats why flex Purified is nearly BIS for Destro lock vs other trinkets.

      Haste has a low value for destruction because we easiyl get gcd locked, which makes haste rather bad despite the fact we can AoE faster and CB faster at the right times. Generally MAstery > Haste > Crit is the best build for overall SoO. But critical strike does more then just make you crit for destruction, it has several values. I don’t know if you read my haste vs crit post, but it explains how little impact what you are thinking about here really has, actually none.

      Purified crit modifier is the biggest upgrade never the less for Destruction

      8% of 10k haste is really not much vs 8% of 6-8k haste, the numbers are so small because it’s not like crit has 0 value from purified

  129. illmatik
    illmatik 6 February, 2014, 17:10

    hey Spark! I’m 442 ilvl currently, and wondering at around what ilvl I should be changing to GoSac.

    Thanks in advance

  130. Wolvios
    Wolvios 6 February, 2014, 20:50

    Hey Spark great guide got a question for you. On which fights do you prefer to take Kil’jaeden’s Cunning and on which fights do you prefer to take Archimonde’s Darkness?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 7 February, 2014, 00:33


      Its risk vs reward. If ur not going for r1 wol, ur kjc is king. Ad isnt that big for destro. Immerseus u csn go mf, and things like that. But if you fuck up on movement too much, kjc becomes far better pretty fast.

  131. Knowfear
    Knowfear 8 February, 2014, 23:57

    Hello Sparkuggz, im a big fan of yours and always following your tips! Learned destruction a bit better with your help :) im just wondering, atm i have 531 ilvl, im wondering if GoSac is better then GoSup? I have tried on dummy and the dps is pretty much the same, sup maybe does a little more damage but i dont know.. if it is any more you want to know about my char (reforging,gems etc) on how to help me check me out on armory (EU) :D thanks!

  132. Ruffhead
    Ruffhead 11 February, 2014, 20:55

    Someone starting D3:RoS http://amzn.to/1bmL08o when it comes out??

  133. GnomeQueen
    GnomeQueen 12 February, 2014, 02:56

    Hey Sparkuggz, I’m a little concerned about my DPS given my ilvl (573 equipped) I am only pulling around 350k as destro, around what I expect with my simc results, could this be the result of the poor trinkets I currently have (heroic Frenzied Crystal of Rage / normal toxic totem)? or would you suspect there something majorly wrong with my play style? (currently have 4set) or is destro not that strong on some fights.

    Getting a bit of rage from my GM because he expects results as seen on raidbots.com

    Thanks.

  134. Sabertorous
    Sabertorous 13 February, 2014, 13:44

    Quick question on opener, what should a line up with my synapse springs with, the prepot potion or later with dark soul?

  135. Stroika
    Stroika 18 February, 2014, 08:56

    Hi Spark! I see some locks that use GoSup with imp and Demon Training glyph as destro with more than 10k of haste, you think that is correct? or it’s better play with observer in AOE and GoSasc in Single.

    Thanks!

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 18 February, 2014, 12:49


      Demon Training doens’t do anything for your DPS and Imp is just used a lot because of ranged attacks and faster switching then an observer running after targets! I don’t know where you get the 10k haste from either :P Not sure who are doing these things, but there arent any secrets with such stats or glyphs.

      All siege of orgrimmar fights -> GoSac

  136. NiGakki
    NiGakki 19 February, 2014, 09:34

    Hi, I have another question, which hasn’t been asked before.

    Stat weight says, that Mastery > Crit =~ Haste is theoretically the best.
    Doesn’t this change with Purified Bindings?

    It doesn’t only increase the stats, it also amplifies the critical strike damage, so that not only chaos bolt benefits from this, since more crit -> more CB dmg, and this increased dmg is even amplified trough the enhanced crit dmg from the trinket.

    Maybe you could clarify this, and even could do some testings? I’m sure the stat weights change a bit when useing Purified Bindings.
    Greetings

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 19 February, 2014, 09:49


      PBI increases Mastery (stat), Haste (stat) and Critical Strike Damage

      If you increase mastery, you gain x % more stat from PBI
      If you increase haste, you gain x % more stat from PBI
      If you increase crit, you very slightly increase CB damage and get a higher % chance to crit on example Incinerate which is increased by PBI x%.
      PBI doesn’t increase critical strike, so if you add 1 crit raiting, you keep 1 crit raiting, but your damage increases differently through CB increase (which it always does) and the buffer of PBI passive effect will always be there, except if your Incinerate doesn’t crit (which isn’t your damage, but your ember regeneration)

      MAstery > Haste > Crit is what i would always play with in SoO, no doubt

  137. Hazmat
    Hazmat 20 February, 2014, 20:23

    I do belts on hm siegecrafter as destro, thus use KJC, in these situations would fel flame be better while using AD or stick with incin move filler with kjc..? i have the habit of using kjc on alot of fights and rarely using fel flame, should i change this habit or are they close enough to not concern myself with it?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 22 February, 2014, 07:48


      Just use KJC on such fight with so much movement. No reason to not take it. AD isn’t as powerful for Destruction as AD is for the other specs imo.

  138. Nerhzul
    Nerhzul 27 February, 2014, 15:32

    Hi Spark!We are currently at 9/14 hc with my guild, so I cant get the 4/5 hc t16 set.I’m mainly destruction.I use aff only on 2 bosses.Here’s my armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bloodscalp/Nerhzul/advanced .I’m thinking on dropping the 4 piece bonus for some heroic pieces(heroic Immerseus head, heroic Norushen shoulders), and stick with heroic T16 set chest and hands(still waiting for drop).Is it worth to drop the 4 piece bonus?
    One last question.Is it worth to drop my rings for some heroic one without mastery?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 27 February, 2014, 15:50


      4P for Destruction is mandatory. Only Affliction you want to drop it!

      Mastery is very good at the moment, i replaced WF hit / haste boots with HC mastery / haste ones. You need to compare total stats gained vs lost and consider if 300 mastery raiting is better then xx you loose.

      • Néme
        Néme 27 February, 2014, 23:07

        Would you even drop it, if you haven´t two wf pieces? (Affliction)

        Greets

  139. Slash
    Slash 27 February, 2014, 21:09

    Hey Sparkz, my rings i currently have are Extinguished Ember of Galakras heroic which i know isnt the best, and Iyyokuk’s Hereditary Seal normal, but in my recent raid i have just got petrified pennyroyal ring hc, which ring do you think will be best to replace?

  140. foithtaras
    foithtaras 28 February, 2014, 07:22

    sparkz are soul link and grimoire of sacrifice exclusive with each other?if i take one i cant take the other right?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 28 February, 2014, 10:59


      Soul Link gives you +20% HP if you sac your pet, so they work together very well

  141. Farewell
    Farewell 4 March, 2014, 05:11

    Spark you have answered practically everyone person’s questions on this. And for that, you are a bamf. Keep truckin’.

  142. Xcers
    Xcers 5 March, 2014, 19:51

    Hey spark. thanks for all the help with the guide but i have 2 questions:

    When a boss hits sup 20% should i wait for a proc of some sort to fire up my Shadowburns?

    I use Flex bindings (im not really well geard yet…) but as it has a external cooldown on 2min, should i wait for it to proc and use DS then fire off as many Chaos bolts?

    If yes on both on thesem How long should i be able to sit on 4 embers before it hurts my DPS?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 6 March, 2014, 10:46


      Execute you try to wait for trinket procs to use CB, else use Shadowburn as a filler on 4P proc, never cap on embers. You can also use the shadowburn on trinket procs if you are moving or there is not enough time to cast CB before some procs fade.

  143. foithtaras
    foithtaras 6 March, 2014, 10:54

    why gnomes dont make the race list?dont they get +5% intellect so 5% more spell power?or it only increases their mana pool?

  144. Zemnis
    Zemnis 6 March, 2014, 17:22

    for destro is it a must to go for the 10.1k haste break point or is it safe to say i could hover around 6.8k and just do crit?

  145. Zemnis
    Zemnis 6 March, 2014, 17:30

    ok so my 10.1k haste is fine then?

  146. MadCuzBad
    MadCuzBad 9 March, 2014, 01:05

    Using the wod racials what do you think will be the best race ?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11913971864

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 9 March, 2014, 15:31


      No idea how it will scale yet, need to see more beta before i start judging tbh

  147. Ramalama
    Ramalama 10 March, 2014, 07:11

    My guild isn’t into heroic raiding yet, but I was wondering if the ten man version of BiS is better than the warforged stuff off Ordos. Particularly the belt. Thanks ahead of time, Spark.
    Ramalama

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 10 March, 2014, 11:22


      Ugh, link the two items please? I don’t remember the stats on Ordos stuff, so if it doesn’t have good stats it’s not. But Ordos item as i remember was pretty good.

  148. Kylskåpskast
    Kylskåpskast 12 March, 2014, 22:29

    Senpai lead the way please. I currently have 4set piece without the head which is HC Swirling Senses. Today i got the HeroicWarforged shoulders from Nazgrim. Is it worth replacing my normal tier shoulders for them? and put the normal head on instead of my current HC Swirling Senses.

    Cheers Kylskåpskast.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/Kylsk%C3%A5pskast/advanced If you need to check stats or something.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 13 March, 2014, 00:17


      Nazgrim shoulders are BIS, so yes? I’m not sure if im missing something but if you have the norushen shoulders HC WF they are BIS , so use them with your 4p, even if the head is NM, since your shoulders are NM too and the head is only HC

  149. Ruffhead
    Ruffhead 13 March, 2014, 22:43

    Hey Spark! :)

    Is it worth to replace the ordos belt (567 with hit mastery) with the belt of Malkorok (574 with hit crit)
    The stats from the belt suck, I’m reforging mastery > haste and I am at 574 itemlevel.

    What do you think?
    I am playing mainly destro with 4pc set bonus.
    Simcraft says, the Malkorok belt is 2k dps stronger, but I would suffer about 800 mastery and about 100 haste and gain 120int and 1k crit -_-

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 13 March, 2014, 23:25


      I would stay with mastery belt, but why on earth do you reforge mastery to haste?

      • Ruffhead
        Ruffhead 14 March, 2014, 02:14

        I dont reforge mastery to haste lol ^^
        I meant : mastery > (bigger) haste :)

  150. Sothing
    Sothing 15 March, 2014, 16:00

    My guild is just starting heroics, i have the 4 piece set in reg. should i try and keep it or should i start replacing , say teir helm with the helm that drops of immerseus and my teir chest with the one that drops from FP? (as we haven’t downed heroic sha)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 15 March, 2014, 16:44


      Hm stay with 4P forever, but pick and choose 1 offpiece to use. You don’t want to replace your 4P As destruction, only if you had some crazy normal / flex combo vs HC WF offpieces

  151. Cass
    Cass 23 March, 2014, 06:01

    Spark sensei, I’m bugged out with my dps, i don’t know if i am doing it right http://us.battle.net/wow/pt/character/azralon/cryotic/advanced
    My DPS pull its about 600k-ish or a little less and the end of the battle i’m doing about 250-230k, for my itlvl. am I doing something wrong ?

    • Liquidsteel
      Liquidsteel 23 March, 2014, 13:46

      You need to provide Logs. Armoury doesn’t mean shit.

      • Cass
        Cass 23 March, 2014, 18:01

        Oh, sorry about that, i think it was too much post my logs here for analysis, i didn’t want to bother you guys, but i can provide it if that’s okay.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 March, 2014, 16:54


      As Liquid said and as you did checking through logs / video gives way more then just checking your Armory

  152. denzildk
    denzildk 1 April, 2014, 20:19

    When does spells, specialy Chaos bolt, snapshot? just so i know if i can fit an extra one in for when a proc is about to run out or if i have to take in the travel time as a factor.

  153. Shaxeey
    Shaxeey 7 April, 2014, 06:55

    Which spec is best for norushen in full bis gear?

  154. Ahmad
    Ahmad 7 April, 2014, 21:17

    Hello Sparkuggz , I have a hard question I guess lol .
    I Have ([Venruki's Venerable Sash] normal Warforge Belt and [Miasmic Skullbelt] HC belt ).
    and Have ([Scalebane Bracers] HC Warforge bracer and [Bjam's Blasting Bracers] normal Warforge bracer)
    and Have ( [Leggings of Furious Flame] HC Warforge leg and normal tier Leg)
    and Have ( [Rime-Rift Shoulders] HC shoulder and normal tier shoulder)
    having all the tiers .
    what should i use between them if u can help me please.
    if u missing any inf from me just tell me to give it to u

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 8 April, 2014, 11:13


      Ugh Ahmad, gear changes like this i always tell to 1 ) compare the stats when you upgrade items 2 ) Simulate the differnece if you go from 2P to 4P bonus

  155. Shenanigans
    Shenanigans 8 April, 2014, 10:13

    Hi Spark! So I’m currently sitting at 557 ilvl, but I only have lfr totem, flex bindings, and flex staff. How much is that hurting my dps compared to having normal versions of these? Damn rng

    • Shenanigans
      Shenanigans 8 April, 2014, 10:15

      Only reason I ask is because I’m under the impression that maximizing our CB damage is the most important and not having as large of procs as I could have is hurting me quite a bit.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 8 April, 2014, 11:10


      Trinkets hurt, always. Destruction doesn’t scale up as insanely as Affliction. But on my spirit warlock i cant do shit dps without the trinkets and still 550 ilvl

  156. Dotsngo
    Dotsngo 9 April, 2014, 19:56

    Hey Spark, really well done guide, helped me many times when I made my lock 2 months ago.
    I got 1 question though, is it worth to change 4P (2P normal/2P heroic) for 2xHeroic Warforged parts of EQ? I’ve recently dropped head which got really alot more of mastery/crit/int and warforged legs, personally I dont see alot of dps change but i’m a bit newbie and probably doing something wrong.

    Thanks again for guide. :)

    • Dotsngo
      Dotsngo 9 April, 2014, 21:07

      Actually the change gives me :
      739 INT
      598 M
      200 C
      120 H
      And obviously im losing 4P bonus . Any advices?

      • Sparkuggz
        Sparkuggz 9 April, 2014, 23:38


        If it’s that few stats im not sure it’s worth it. Try to simulate it to see value of set bonus vs stats

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 9 April, 2014, 23:38


      Simulate set piece changes, i don’t know the math behind how much set bonus value has vs stat different combinations. Too many variables to calculate in, not something i can do for every option :P 4P is very good for destruction tho, but all dependso n combinations so try to sim

  157. Góldy
    Góldy 17 April, 2014, 15:32

    hey spark Im a 562 destro warlock and I have tryed haste over crit and crit over haste and my dps is so diffrent what should i use? Mastry>haste>crit or mastry>crit>haste

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 17 April, 2014, 15:42


      There is no difference, what you see is difference in trinkets and many other factors. You can ever do real time comparing, there are too many variables, that’s why we simulate 10.000 pulls doing the exact same rotation from a to z to get a result we can judge by using our own knowledge etc.

      I prefer M>H>C in 99 situations out of 100

  158. Spandauer
    Spandauer 23 April, 2014, 15:51

    so on Paragons, is SB a dps increase or decrease under 20%?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 23 April, 2014, 16:23


      Not sure what you mean? Shadowburning a 2nd target is complete whoring with havoc, doesn’t give you anything. For dmg meters, it counts :P

  159. rng
    rng 24 April, 2014, 12:12

    Why Rime-Rift Shoulders > Shoulderpads of Dou Dou Chong?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 24 April, 2014, 12:14


      Hit sucks on gear, we want as little as possible. You can easily use the other shoulderpads if you have them until

  160. Scathbais
    Scathbais 24 April, 2014, 17:44

    Great guide. One question on FnB and AOE.

    On fights like H Nourushen, H Sha, H Shamans, etc, the damn dirty shamans are killing my targets sometimes faster than I can get a cast off. Would you recommend FnB’ing off the boss and only swap to adds to Soul Burn?

  161. Voidweaver
    Voidweaver 25 April, 2014, 15:56

    Kick ass guide! Idk anyone that would not make this site their “Go To” place for their lock! I just boosted a lock last week. Ty so much for this Clear information! I switched over to gemming Intellect like i interpreted you saying. I’m now 527, blasting through stuff it feels like. When do you recommend me switching to gemming mastery. I’m also using GoSup. Idk when to switch to GoSac as well. Asking to keep my progress going. :D

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 25 April, 2014, 21:24


      Thanks man :D

      • Voidweaver
        Voidweaver 26 April, 2014, 16:50

        Ty too :)  I just realize that I didn’t put question marks where i had questions.  When would you recommend switching over to prioritizing mastery > intellect and Gosac >Gosup?  is it at 560?  I’m not that experienced in simcraft.  Is that what i should use?  

        • Sparkuggz
          Sparkuggz 26 April, 2014, 17:05


          Basic destro video says exactly how! But yea around 560 area is a good start or when CB+Sburn dmg is high

  162. Shatrevar-Thunderhorn US
    Shatrevar-Thunderhorn US 4 May, 2014, 05:55

    Hey spark I have normal warfordged wand, heroic spellsword, heroic warfordged powercore and heroic gaze of arogance.  Simcraft says spellsword powercore is the best pick out of all these weapons.  Untill i can get heroic wand and garrosh offhand would you agree this is best??  Also i have pretty much always heavily relied on KJC and because of this if i dont use it i find my self trying to spam incinerate when im moving.  Would it be a big increase for me to retrain myself not to rely on in in fights like heroic malk where i have to move from orbs.  I am quite new to wow..SoO is my first heroic current content but i can pull 90%+ on raidbots for sha,gal,jug  but other fights not so high.  definitely WTB time to pick your brain so i can try to improve to 95% on most fights :)

    • Liquidsteel
      Liquidsteel 4 May, 2014, 12:26

      I’d stick with the sword and offhand, but do look to pick up the heroic wand if you can.
      KJC is pretty much staple in SoO for Destruction. You can take AD on some fights, but the dps increase isn’t huge, and you stand to lose more through the decreased ember generation if you aren’t comfortable with it.
      Honestly, just stick with KJC if you like it, you can still parse 95+ with it on every fight if you like.

  163. Pipastrilo
    Pipastrilo 5 May, 2014, 17:51

    Are stats for the cast of a spell taken when the spell starts casting, ends casting, or lands?(As in if i had 0.1 seconds on trinket proc and started casting would that use the stats from the trinket proc)

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 8 May, 2014, 11:10


      End of cast = calculation of procs (leaves the body)

      air travel time doesn’t update anything

  164. Mahalath
    Mahalath 15 May, 2014, 03:53

    Thanks So much for an amazing Guide, Really helped me a lot with my boosted warlock. I am now regretting not max leveling a warlock until now. :D keep up the amazing work!

  165. Mike
    Mike 16 May, 2014, 13:02

    Spark I have a question. I apped to this top 20 U.S. guild and I was being drilled on “why wasn’t I haste capping for destro even though I had 11k haste. I kept trying to tell them about haste losing value the higher it goes and destro doesnt really try to hit any high end haste ratings. Am I wrong?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 16 May, 2014, 14:43


      What the actual fuck haste cap did they want you to use lol!? Yea that sounds retarded

      • Mike
        Mike 16 May, 2014, 15:45

        I have no idea man. “You should be going for one of the haste break points or at least trying to soft cap it” my reply was “the only cap that i know of is around 2k-3k or so for an extra tick of immolate and thats it. The only reason I can see for Destro main spec locks carring a ton of haste is due to affliction off specs.” They didnt seem to like the answer much. Though they only run with one lock so maybe they didnt know much on the haste topic. Kinda bugs me though.

        • Mike
          Mike 16 May, 2014, 15:47

          by cap i mean the only cap worth shooting for is 2-3k. Think the next one is 10k for a 2nd extra tic?

          • Mike
            Mike 16 May, 2014, 15:48

            and right now I sit at 11.2k unbuffed as is. I try to keep crit and haste fairly balanced with crit a bit higher since Simcraft doesnt seem to like when I go heavy crit (.

          • Liquidsteel
            Liquidsteel 16 May, 2014, 22:45

            There are immolate breakpoints at 10.1k and 10.4k (meta gem/BL).

            Regardless, haste breakpoints for destruction and locks in general are kind of irrelevant due to pandemic.

            The only ones which really have an impact on DPS are those which come into effect when the stars align, generally on a bloodlusted.

            For example as Demonology, one of the breakpoints I discovered was 14880, which comes into effect with BL/meta gem/berserking active.

            • Sparkuggz
              Sparkuggz 16 May, 2014, 22:58


              Yea, but still irrelevant to a trial or talking about them for accepting one. You don’t “go” for them if you cant reach them easily, besides he said he was already 11k, so dno what these nut jobs are on about!

              • Liquidsteel
                Liquidsteel 17 May, 2014, 06:22

                Yeah, but he said top U.S guild so go figure xD

                • Sparkuggz
                  Sparkuggz 17 May, 2014, 11:07


                  Top 20 US doesn’t mean they have a clue!

                • Mike
                  Mike 18 May, 2014, 06:08

                  Yeah well. i didn’t want to be rude and call them out so I just put that there instead. Also a reference as to the attitude I got with the chat. Sorta “we killed Garrosh on HM we know what we are talking about” type chat.

                  • Sparkuggz
                    Sparkuggz 18 May, 2014, 09:17


                    Wtb screenshots :D

                    • Mike
                      Mike 20 May, 2014, 02:02

                      Haha well it was said over mumble. So nothing to track back to them!

  166. jule
    jule 23 May, 2014, 10:37

    Hi Spark and thanks a lot for this ( and all :p ) guide
    Just have a question about CB
    In your guide you say : cast CB with proc but i in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxh4g98FTrQ
    you cast a few cb without proc :p exemple : ” 1:54 ” “3:21″ “5:26″
    can you explain me why ? :)
    again thanks a lot for the amazing job that you made for the warlock comunity
    ( and sorry for my bad english ^^ )

    • Liquidsteel
      Liquidsteel 23 May, 2014, 13:44

      1:54 – Adds coming (means aoe and will be ember capped) so bleeds a chaos bolt to push boss damage.

      3:21 – Dunno, maybe to build an initial soul leech shield for the first hit?

      5:26 – Ember capped so needs to dump an ember.

      Also not everyone is going to play perfect 100% of the time, especially on progress. Something to remember.

      • jule
        jule 23 May, 2014, 16:15

        thanks liquid

        “Also not everyone is going to play perfect 100% of the time, especially on progress. Something to remember ”

        totally agree with that :D it’s not a criticism at all. i’m just trying to have the maximum informations on the gameplay to play the spec better that i do actually :D

  167. Fírestorm
    Fírestorm 27 May, 2014, 21:54

    Is ther any mastery cap? or should i get as much mastery i can? i got 146% mastery atm, should i lower it or is it fine?

    and should i lower my crit? i got 30.80 % crit and 32.67% haste anything i should lower? seems like the other destrolocks do more dps then me, with a “haste” build, they do about 20k more.

  168. Jordan
    Jordan 30 May, 2014, 01:35

    Sparkuggz, doesn’t look like you’ve answered this question yet.

    Can the Cleave or Multistrike from FCoR and KTT proc from the multiplied spells cast through F&B? In heavy AOE fights like H Siegecrafter, which one of those 2 trinks would you suggest?

    • Liquidsteel
      Liquidsteel 30 May, 2014, 10:56

      Yes it can, but it generally isn’t worth it. FnB on its own + shadowburn sniping is enough for the mines, both on 10 and 25. You’ll also have ele shamans going to town on them.

      Stick to KTT/BBoY and you’ll still rape the mines, as well as also maintaining high boss damage.

  169. coldbeer84
    coldbeer84 4 June, 2014, 14:20

    Has the BiS list changed since you posted this 8 months ago? From this list to what your armory says you wear, looks like you dropped the 4pc and traded out a trinket. With the extra 2 item upgrades, wondering if anything has changed in our BiS so I have a better idea on what to look out for in our upcoming raids.

    • Liquidsteel
      Liquidsteel 5 June, 2014, 13:04

      That’s for Affliction.

      For Destruction you want to keep the 4 set if you want to optimise it fully.

  170. Demensia
    Demensia 27 June, 2014, 18:18

    I’ve been comparing my current weapon (Heroic Gaze of Arrogence) to the recommended Immaculately Preserved Wand. If I take the Heroic wand over the staff, (along with a HWF Juggernaut’s Power Core that I recently coined) the stats will result in: +72 Stam, -2 SP, -32 Int, +893 Haste, -1,110 Mastery. This all assumes 4/4 upgraded items. Why would I want to choose the wand (even with my HWF OH) over the staff? I’d lose some SP, Int, and a ton of Mastery. Am I missing something here? Does weapon speed affect this?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 27 June, 2014, 18:57


      The off-hand is the wrong one, despite being WF you just get some more haste instead of mastery. OVerall a loss, but always remember to count off-hand enchant in this equation. That´s why HC staff vs HC wand + garrosh off hand would be better

  171. Modokk
    Modokk 30 June, 2014, 23:49

    I’m having the same type of problem. I’m using heroic Gaze of Arrogence. I want to know is it worth it to switch if I have the heroic wand of spoils and a normal warforged off of garosh?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 1 July, 2014, 08:54


      HC vs HC it should be. Just add the stats up (incl. off-hand enchant) and see if you gain or – stats. Generally if you are about to upgrade 2 items 4/4 i think you can easily find other items for a better upgrade overall

  172. Tommy Solvang
    Tommy Solvang 8 July, 2014, 02:40

    Hey Sparkuggz, im kind of struggling with a perfect execution of a imm 25 man HC fight for optimal DPS as destruction, what do you prefer? Starting to AOE the adds right away or waiting abit til it is alot of em? Could you put us in a perspective on how to the execute the adds/boss for optimizing dps?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 8 July, 2014, 10:00


      You start AoE straight away with ROF before they are gathered and FnB +4 targets always

      Optimal you obv dont only focus adds, but if you want to look big you do.

      Shadowburn leftover adds and you can example havoc the boss to cleave it to him. It´s a pointless fight to optimize anyhow imo : )

  173. Tommy Solvang
    Tommy Solvang 9 July, 2014, 02:28

    Ok, thanks for respond, do you have any issues using mouseover shadowburn / Havoc? Example: Havoc on Sha of pride, and burning the reflections with mouse, im trying to that that sort of everytime, but wont never cleave when im using the mouseover, in some situations it works when im actually targeting the mob instead of mouseover?

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 9 July, 2014, 15:55


      Not sure what you mean at all? Mouse over is mouse over, targeting is targeting!

  174. Joakim Larsson
    Joakim Larsson 10 July, 2014, 19:29

    Immaculately Preserved Wand + Revelations of Y’Shaarj vs Hellscream’s War Staff (All in Heroic only) None is HeroicWarforged. Senpai please

  175. Tommy Solvang
    Tommy Solvang 30 July, 2014, 09:04

    Hey Spark, i love everything about your website, hope you keep it updated like this through entire WOD aswell. I have a question for you, i just recieved my heroic blood trinket, and i make wonders for if i should use it as destr? I can see in ur list that its slightly better than heroic toxic (not wf) But i feel like the proc from the tpoxic make a huge impact on the dps numbers throughout the fight, even if the blood increase ur mastery/haste numbers by alot, whats ur point of view as the ultimate dps trinket?

    • Malvanis
      Malvanis 30 July, 2014, 12:21

      both are great trinkets, KTT is less RNG than BBoY as you can dump at any point during the 10sec proc whereas BBoY you need to be timing it to gain the maximum benefit from the stacks. This means that in practice, KTT is stronger on most fights with movement and they are about even on low movement fights.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 1 August, 2014, 09:19


      BBoY is always better then toxic with higher ilvl imo. Whichever trinket is highest ilvl wins, but BboY takes more play from your side where Toxic is more passive and safe

  176. IvoC
    IvoC 31 July, 2014, 01:42

    In the guide you say the BiS for trinket is The toxic totem, but on the dps meter the best is the y’shaarj one. Which one do you prefer to use?
    One more question, my friend who also plays warlock told me that I should not use Soul link talent, he said I should use Sac pact. My question is then, does the soul link give me 20% dmg ignore and heal when I use GoSac? or is that only with pet out.

    • Malvanis
      Malvanis 31 July, 2014, 09:39

      Blackblood is only stronger if you use its procs to their full potential and its the same ilv as your totem. In practice this rarely happens which is why KTT is usually a better trinket for SoO fights.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 1 August, 2014, 09:21


      Soul Link gives you 20% mroe hp and is the best talent, even without a pet (imo). Your friend sucks!

      I prefer highest ilvl trinket, but toxic is good for some cases and more safe RNG wise while BBoY can be good on more ST orintated and some AoE scenarios with luck. It´s a hard call with no factual answer

  177. Darnn
    Darnn 2 August, 2014, 21:15

    Hello Sparkuggz, I have a question. Atm I am using 4set with HC WF immersus shoulders as offpiece. 576il range. In my bank I have hc wf immersus head (atm using hc tier head) and today I got non-wf hc legs from Iron Juggernaut (atm using normal569 tier legs). Shall I drop 4 set and go for 2 set, 2 hc wf and 1 hc piece ? Playing destro most of time

    • Darnn
      Darnn 2 August, 2014, 21:18

      * ofc I meant HC WF Norushen shoulders

      • Malvanis
        Malvanis 5 August, 2014, 01:04

        Dropping 4set as destro is almost never worth it, you would have to have an insane ilv difference for it make up for the lost damage (2-3 pieces of flex tier vs heroic gear is about the tradeoff). Aff however has a pretty shitty 4 set and you can trade it for your offpieces especially if they have more mastery.

    • Sparkuggz
      Sparkuggz 19 August, 2014, 12:04


      Nope, stay with your 4P

  178. Verdish
    Verdish 29 August, 2014, 09:21

    Hi Spark,
    nice work here in the website … just for protocol, here i read locks need 15% HiT … but maybe u got some reason for this … i inspect u in armory and u got 10,70% HIT sorry but just tell me r u miss in the raids ?

  179. Nurulak
    Nurulak 11 October, 2014, 09:56

    Hello Spark! Have been watching your guides and videos lately and I’m really enjoying it so far, keep up the good work!
    Just one small question: How do you deal with trinkets proccing late in your opener? I’d love to see a section on this topic in your future opener videos, sometimes your 20secs trinkets procc even after Dark Soul has already ran out and I’m not really sure how to react. Do you still just use the same opener and then burn the remaining or newly generated CBs as soon as the trinket proccs? Would love to hear your opionion :)

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